Buying Used Festools

[Steveo48]

I've been watching festool auctions on ebay and am stunned that people are paying near full retail on tools missing accessories and out of warranty, some of them discontinued.

For instance, a TS 55 in Florida was just recently sold missing the guide rail, but had everything else.  It sold for $375, not including shipping (shipping to me it in Ohio would have added an additional $39.00).  Add in the cost of the replacement rail, and this used saw sold for over the $440.00 retail price.

I'm curious about your opinion on this.  This seems to be the rule there. 

Steve

 

[CharlesWilson]

If you knew the answer to this, you might also understand what induces lemmings to drown themselves en masse.

My guess is that there is some sort of hormonal characteristic in humans that suspends rational behavior when certain conditions exist. In our case, I think the introduction of the Kapex in NA could be one of those conditions.

Charles

 

[Jesse Cloud]

I see the same thing with high end hand tools, particularly veritas and lie nielsen.  Same thing happens on craigslist...

The bright side is that when I'm not totally sure a prospective Festool is exactly what I need, the risk is lessened by the certainty that I can sell it for close to what I paid for it if it doesn't work out.

 

[Matthew Schenker]

Charles,
Even though you're being humorous, I think you do make an interesting (and accurate) point here.  Something about auctions leads people to do weird things.  I do think there's something about competing for an item that plays with people's minds a little bit.

It's not just Festool.  Take a look at almost any category on eBay, and scan the prices.  You'll soon realize that people are often paying close to full price, especially after shipping is factored in.  Also, for me at least, I consider the pain-in-the-neck factor: isn't it more of a hassle working out auction purchases and payments than just going to a store or buying from a reputable online vendor?

I'm only talking about getting the same items through auctions that are available from non-auction sources.  If you're getting something from eBay that is not available in stores, that's a whole different story.

Note: These days, when I have to sell an item, I try to place it on Amazon instead.  It's just a simple placement and purchase system.  The only limitation is that you have to be selling something that Amazon sells.  But when you do, it just works better.

Matthew

 

[Jon3]

Not to mention wear and tear, very hard to guage, considering people tend to use the 'stock' photos from festool's website, rather than the real item you're buying, Missing Manuals (not so bad with festools, PITA with others), Parts like chucks, and (quite often!) systainers, and the "semi-consumables" like saw blades, and frequently you're back near the list price.

I've done a lot of stand up real life auctions, and there is a common phenomenon of 'I bought it at an auction, therefore I must have gotten a good deal'.  If you don't know what you're buying, in explicit detail, you should keep the wallet shut.  Then again, occasionally you get a deal.

I once saw a real trashed PM66 go for almost $2000 at the same auction I bought a Leigh D4 for about $50.

 

[Dan Lyke]

The point of auctions is to goad people into irrational purchasing decisions. I admit to having bought some high end items off of eBay, and having been quite satisfied, but generally I make one bid, and either I get the item or I don't, but I don't get into a bidding war.

A brother in law used to make money buying lease-returned laptops, refurbishing them, and then selling them on eBay. I asked him if I could buy one from him, and he said "no, you can do a lot better". eBay allowed him to sell the computers for far more than they were worth to a cusho wasn't caught up in the buying frenzy.

So, yeah, sleep well knowing that your Festool purchases aren't losing much value, but be really careful when buying stuff of eBay, as an indicator of value it's not a place to look for rational decision making.

 

[mntbighker]

I got a pretty good deal on a OF-2000 and the Planer with a lot of acces. on craigslist recently but it seems I just got lucky there. I was watching that saw as well and also an RO-125 and 150. I'm not convinced that items are not being "bid up" artificially to get the most money for them. If the auction goes to the "inside man" they simply wait and offer it again later until a sucker is found. Maybe I'm paranoid but it looks fishy to me. Otherwise there are a lot of people out there with more money than brains. I ended up paying full retail with tax locally for my TS-55 and MFT-1080 and I'm starting my first project while I'm on vacation this week.

By the way, maybe a good indicator on Ebay that something is rotten in Denmark is when the seller has a large number of totally random items for sale. I have had the best luck with folks who have 3 or 4 items up for auction. That's when you have a chance that your dealing with a stand up guy just liquidating a few things.

--M

 

[rodwolfy]

I've seen some really good deals on ebay and gotten a few. Like 1/2 of Amazon. On the other hand, if you get into the "watching" mode on an item, it'll sucker you in, very much like gambling does for many people. The thing that works best for me is to just put in a price and walk away until after the auction is over. If you give it your best price and it's a good deal to you, then it doesn't matter if someone gets it for hundreds more. That's too much for me. However, I have been sniped at the end a couple of times by a dollar or two and that's irritating.

I saw a whole bunch of Festool tools go up a couple of weeks ago. It was a really sweet package, but the seller had no previous auctions. He also didn't seem to know much about the Festools. In addition, he was selling most of them at once. In another post we were talking about stolen items being sold. This one sure looked like someone had unloaded someone else's garage and then put them up on ebay. There was like 3 sanders, a vac and some other items. Knowing the pride that most of us have in our tool collections, I was shocked that someone was just putting the whole thing up at once. Also, you tend to make more money on ebay if you list the items individually.

Rod

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

I have purchased brand new my C12 and OF1400 from eBay at a reasonable price (better than listed retail) and included warranty so no complaints there and I look probably 5 times a week on eBay to see what Festools are on sale (which isn't much in Australia).

 

[gkeas]

I noticed the trend on eBay for tools to go for close to retail, plus shipping.  I prefer buying new with warranty with the 30 day money back.

Having said that, I stole a ton of gear from a guy who was in the middle of a divorce and short on cash (craigslist).  Got a 1400, TS55, MFT1080, guide rail kit, and some other accessories for $700.  The TS 55 was sitting on the table, but had never been plugged in (strip on the guide rail wasn't trimmed) and the 1400 had not even pulled out of the systainer, ever. 

I bought everything else from Bob M.  I do mean everything.

 

[Steveo48]

There is a used systainer on ebay right now selling for $2.00 over retail with shipping.  The seller even STATES the retail price, $53.50 in bold letters on his site.

I suspect most of us are pretty good about our purchases and money.  I guess I'm just still agog with the way these people spend theirs.

Steve

 

[Lancashire Fusilier]

There was a fellow here in Perth who was selling off quite a few, probably about 10, of the Sys 5 units that as a promotion here in Australia they had lined with foam and made them coolers (Esky). He was making a fortune on them. Then he sold off a radio control mercedes that was free give away a year back (I got one with my Trion 300 PSB) and someone paid over AU$120 for it and it had been used!  There was a new one for sale form a tool reseller at a buy it now price of $75 at the same time! Go figure ???

 

[Jesse Cloud]

I noticed the trend on eBay for tools to go for close to retail, plus shipping.  I prefer buying new with warranty with the 30 day money back.

Having said that, I stole a ton of gear from a guy who was in the middle of a divorce and short on cash (craigslist). 

I once got in on the other side.  An Ebay posting a few years ago... a lady had 'thrown the bum out and wanted to sell his favorite tools at a price that would make him cry'.  Wasn't Festool though.

Be careful guys!

 

[Eli]

I think it's important to make it clear to your lady that tools are the conduit through which cash flows into the house. That usually heads off any threats.

 

[mntbighker]

There is currently a CT-33 and RO-150 selling on EBay and yet again their about to close for more than the guy would have paid for them (if you account for shipping)? I'm sure he bought the combo and now he is selling them separate. I'm beginning to think I should start buying new Festools and reselling them on EBay :-\

--Mark

 

[Ron Pegram]

Here's my $0.02.

eBay has problems with fraud on both sides - the buying and selling. I can't speak with any authority on auctions that I haven't run but I can tell you that when I've sold personal items on eBay, a lot of the close to retail buyers and almost always the over retail buyers are frauds.

I used to sell gift certificates occasionally. These were items I would ship to the buyer to give myself some seller protection. I used to clearly articulate that I needed a PayPal-approved address within the body of the ad copy. Anytime I had someone buying a $500 GC for close to $500, they invariably had some situation with their address that would've required me to forfeit my seller protection. It was always the old "Well, here's why I'm legit..." story.

Power tools are notoriously high fraud items. If any of you decide to sell some Festool items, please make sure you review the PayPal and eBay seller protection rules. Only ship to PayPal approved addresses (they have a way of certifying that the address of the person is legitimate through a bank account verification). Don't let feedback only be your guide. People have been known to hack into eBay accounts and PayPal accounts and the great feedback you're reading could be the victim's, not the person with whom you're dealing.

If you ignore that and ship to a non PayPal-verified address, and the buyer subsequently tells eBay and PayPal "I was hacked...", you'll be the one who is out. They'll reverse the transaction in a NY minute. You also should consider shipping through PayPal's UPS connection. By doing that, they'll have a permanent record of the tracking information. If you ship on your own, you'll need to keep your own records (and they may ask you to submit them).

Be careful guys. eBay is a lot of fun and I've done a lot of personal stuff with them but it isn't just buyer beware out there. It's seller beware too. Transactions can be reversed months after they've happened and if you can't prove you shipped to a legitimate address, you'll be out of your merchandise and the money you received for it as well. They will take it out of your bank account.

 

[Tinker]

Here's my $0.02.

eBay has problems with fraud on both sides - the buying and selling. I can't speak with any authority on auctions that I haven't run but I can tell you that when I've sold personal items on eBay, a lot of the close to retail buyers and almost always the over retail buyers are frauds.

I used to sell gift certificates occasionally. These were items I would ship to the buyer to give myself some seller protection. I used to clearly articulate that I needed a PayPal-approved address within the body of the ad copy. Anytime I had someone buying a $500 GC for close to $500, they invariably had some situation with their address that would've required me to forfeit my seller protection. It was always the old "Well, here's why I'm legit..." story.

Power tools are notoriously high fraud items. If any of you decide to sell some Festool items, please make sure you review the PayPal and eBay seller protection rules. Only ship to PayPal approved addresses (they have a way of certifying that the address of the person is legitimate through a bank account verification). Don't let feedback only be your guide. People have been known to hack into eBay accounts and PayPal accounts and the great feedback you're reading could be the victim's, not the person with whom you're dealing.

If you ignore that and ship to a non PayPal-verified address, and the buyer subsequently tells eBay and PayPal "I was hacked...", you'll be the one who is out. They'll reverse the transaction in a NY minute. You also should consider shipping through PayPal's UPS connection. By doing that, they'll have a permanent record of the tracking information. If you ship on your own, you'll need to keep your own records (and they may ask you to submit them).

Be careful guys. eBay is a lot of fun and I've done a lot of personal stuff with them but it isn't just buyer beware out there. It's seller beware too. Transactions can be reversed months after they've happened and if you can't prove you shipped to a legitimate address, you'll be out of your merchandise and the money you received for it as well. They will take it out of your bank account.

I guess i am too old fashioned.  I have read/heard about the swindles that have happened with E-bay and the hackers when ordering via websites.  I use the catalogues from reputable dealers and then make a phone call.  i get the name of the sales person and the exact time of day EST i made the order call.  I have never had any problems that way, and that is the way I like it.  i could not care less that I could have made a better deal on E-bay.  Guys like Bob M and the owners of my local toy store are honest people and they treat me right>>> ALL THE TIME.

If i go to Rockler, Woodcraft, Lee Valley or any other large company, I still order via phone.

Tinker

 

[Steveo48]

I spoke with one well established online dealer selling used festools on ebay and he couldn't explain why the things go for what they do, but he wasn't going to argue with it either!

Steve

 

[Steveo48]

It will be interesting to see if there is a stampede to dump the old MFTs after the new MFT3 hits the streets.

 

[rodwolfy]

It will be interesting to see if there is a stampede to dump the old MFTs after the new MFT3 hits the streets.

Is there a new MFT? I hadn't heard of it....