By April 22 We need a HEPA vacuum, Does the CT33 qualify?

[ronaldsauve]

Does the CT33 HEPA vac qualify for Working Safely With Lead cleanup?  Starting April 22, 2010, contractors will be required to use HEPA vacs to cleanup jobsites.  Do these qualify?
The last time I posted, I was referred to posts from last fall; (2009).  I need something more current, as by next week I'll need a vacuum.  I prefer your CT33 to others, as it has the best balance of features. The Festool CT33 is definitely the one I would most like to own. 
Thanks very much!

 

[Holzhacker]

Ronald, do another search this topic was just covered again last week. The vacuums essentially do qualify but there are other requirements to pay attention to for full compliance. Consider PM Charimon, he is the resident lead guy. Some of us remain alive despite lead and asbestos.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Does the CT33 HEPA vac qualify for Working Safely With Lead cleanup?  Starting April 22, 2010, contractors will be required to use HEPA vacs to cleanup jobsites.  Do these qualify?
The last time I posted, I was referred to posts from last fall; (2009).  I need something more current, as by next week I'll need a vacuum.  I prefer your CT33 to others, as it has the best balance of features. The Festool CT33 is definitely the one I would most like to own.   
Thanks very much!

I'd like to know this too. I heard over at the JLC forum that Fein is saying their vacs with the HEPA filter installed comply with the new RRP laws.

Ronald, do another search this topic was just covered again last week. The vacuums essentially do qualify but there are other requirements to pay attention to for full compliance. Consider PM Charimon, he is the resident lead guy. Some of us remain alive despite lead and asbestos.

I agree Charimon is the lead abatement expert but no one seems to be an expert on the new RRP laws so be careful who's information your trust.

 

[ronaldsauve]

I just contacted Christian through his email.  Hopefully, he will be free to let us know.  I understand, especially given the ambiguity of the EPA "requirements", that he may not be able to definitively tell us without actual EPA confirmation. 
On a side note, the Fien is qualified according to their website, but I still would prefer the Festool CT33.  I feel like it has a better balance of features.

 

[score0matic]

Lets see I posted this over on another thread http://festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/new-king-of-the-vacuum-hill-the-nilfisk-attix-30/

NOTE about HEPA and HEPA COMPLIANCE:

EXCERPT from HEPA FILTER CONFORMANCE  TECHNICAL BULLETIN.PDF

"By definition a HEPA filter is a tested filter that is at least 99.97% efficient on particles 0.3 micron in size . Now we have vacuum cleaners and other consumer items claiming to use HEPA filters − absolutely not! These filters are not individually tested and many of them actually use a lesser efficiency media. HEPA

Rarely do sequentially tested filters test at the same penetration and resistance. If each label is a duplicate of the previous it is doubtful that the manufacturer tested every filter. The IEST Recommended Practice, Underwriters Laboratories Standard, government specifications and definitions of HEPA filters, require testing of every filter.

Can a filter be defined as a HEPA filter because the media manufacturer has tested a piece of the media?

All HEPA media is tested by the media manufacturer. It is a different testing method than that used for a completely assembled filter. Some manufacturers will reference the media manufacturers' test, assemble a product, and make inference that they are providing a HEPA filter. This is an absolute misstatement. In order to meet the aforementioned Practices and Standards, every HEPA filter must be tested after all components are assembled.

Warner mentioned that the Festool Hepa filters have  "some printed hepa info on them as well"  
If anyone can tell me what that info is or if it meets the above specifications then keep that document and you should be fine if/when an inspector or client asks if that is a Hepa filtered Vacuum

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

the filters don't have anything printed on them besides festool, hepa filter, part #
and what ct's it fits.

 

[ronaldsauve]

Hi guys,
Today I got this reply from Christian.  I thought all would appreciate the info:

Re: By April 22 We need a HEPA vacuum, Does the CT33 q
? Sent to: ronaldsauve on: Today at 03:20 PM ? Quote Reply Remove 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your PM. We will publish something about this topic this week or next week, as we are in the final stages of research. We wanted to be 100% sure to give
the right advice to our customers and brought some experts in and did testing beyond the standard testing. We will publish the results on our website and on the FOG.

Best regards,

Christian Oltzscher

 

[ccmviking]

    One of the most important things about complying is taking the class.  After that if you are at least making a good and reasonable attempt they'll cut you some slack.  From what I've seen the Festool vac's are going to be better or equal to most others out there.  The fact that during the training they can't even recommend a product that meets the standard is what's troubling.  In showing them the festool, the instructors and one inspector seemed to think it would be good.  When Aprill 22nd rolls around just make sure if you have a "Festool" vac vs "No" Vac.  Any inspector is going to want to see that you are making a good attempt at containment and protection.  I'm sure that none of us will be perfect at it and I think that'll be ok. 

    What this will do is raise the costs of an actual business like ours on these jobs, and provide more work to the unlicensed/non tax or insurance paying people standing out in front of Home Depot as home owners go there to get them to do their project.  We do what we can now to talk the home owners into doing their own demo to save them some money.  It's something a lot of them are capable of and they don't really have to worry about RRP themselves.  Well I'm off now to tear out a pre-78 bathroom (tub, tile, flooring, etc.) and the CT33 will be there cleaning up the muck.  :-\
   

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Hi guys,
Today I got this reply from Christian.  I thought all would appreciate the info:

Re: By April 22 We need a HEPA vacuum, Does the CT33 q
? Sent to: ronaldsauve on: Today at 03:20 PM ? Quote Reply Remove   

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your PM. We will publish something about this topic this week or next week, as we are in the final stages of research. We wanted to be 100% sure to give
the right advice to our customers and brought some experts in and did testing beyond the standard testing. We will publish the results on our website and on the FOG.

Best regards,

Christian Oltzscher

Where is this announcement?

 

[unityroad]

Hello, so are the vacs compliant? Or not? [scared] [eek]

 

[dsweetser]

I PMed Christian several weeks ago. He stated that the testing company should have the result be 5/7. I have heard nothing new so far. There are several vacs that meet the requirements, ie. no leakage, all exhaust thru hepa filter, Fein Turbo II I have found to be the least expensive. It also has a electric powered carpet attachment that complies.

I have 2 CT33's. Wish I ___knew____ they meet the requirements.  I am certified and my firm is waiting for it's certification from EPA. In the mean time I am permitted to act as though the firm is compliant.

Don

 

[unityroad]

Hello, Its been awhile.  One more time for the cheap seats. Do the festool vavs comply for us carpenters who work in pre 78 homes ??? ??? ????

 

[mtj]

I have also been following this thread and await an answer, also for the CT22.
Thank you.

 

[Rhett]

There are MANY of us waiting for this seemingly simple answer.

 

[harry_]

There are MANY of us waiting for this seemingly simple answer.

[dead horse] ,maybe?

 

[Rhett]

There are MANY of us waiting for this seemingly simple answer.

[dead horse] ,maybe?

Clever and original as your emoticon is, I think all we're asking is for the difinitive answer promised to us.

 

[harry_]

There are MANY of us waiting for this seemingly simple answer.

[dead horse] ,maybe?

Clever and original as your emoticon is, I think all we're asking is for the difinitive answer promised to us.

Rhett,

I agree.

The emoticon is neither clever or original, however I was asking a legitimate question.

 

[Rhett]

I'm sorry. It is a pretty cute emoticon though.

I was told in the RRP class that the qualified HEPA vacs would say "HEPA" on them. The CT22 doesn't say it specifically but I know it has them, I even bought replacement filters for it just in case mine clog on the job.

You would think Festool would be more interested in promoting the qualification as this is such a new law and people are buying HEPA vacs by the truckload! At least Fein is promoting theirs, if only I could figure out how to stack all my systainers on it.

 

[Bob Marino]

 
I am in no way speaking for Festool, but I am sure they are not just sitting back, ignoring this subject and letting things happen as they may. I would think they are seeking  legal as well as scientific counsel before releasing a statement or making a pronouncement. This is an area (lead filtration) where not "getting it right" could result in horrendous legal issues and costs, especially for a relatively small company like Festool USA and especially in our very litigious society.

Just my 2 cents.

Bob

 

[ajones]

Bob I have been watching this thread with interest, I think its brave of you to raise your head over the parapit. As Festool seem a little reticent. We don't have this issue in the UK......Yet.

the extractors were manufactured before the lead issue came about and as such have not been tested for use with lead paint.this much is obvious.I would have thought this might have been part of the testing as lead paint has been known to be a issue for many years.

If I lived in the states and needed to conform with these new laws I would go straight out and buy the best machine with the right stickers on it.job done.

for a small company where extractors are only a part of their line up and not their main business I can see that testing would be expensive and take some considerable time.

I doubt festool has even started testing yet as things like this take many months to set up and many more months testing, then there would be the UL issue.. more time.

I would guess the machines once tested and available for sale would need to be badged as suitable for lead paint removal, I doubt this could be applied to machines already sold and in use.

Maybe Festool should say that users should assume the machine is not suitable for lead paint removal and give a provisional date for having the machines tested.

feel free to jump all over me [big grin]