C 12 Drill VS two 18v drills

[mxlars]

Thanks for the reply Tom,
For heavy steel, I-beams and similar Metabo's approach makes sense from my experience with this.. sometimes needing a nudge or a different rpm to let the drillbit bite properly again, or backreaming the bit to clear the debris (same as with some wood-drilling) 

 

[Dave Ronyak]

******
On a sidenote (behaviour also observed in the video), I've seen this done by many but no-one i know.. - What compells people to keep pumping the trigger on cordless drills vigorously either when drilling a hole or driving a screw??? Is it a concious behaviour ???
I think it not only sounds an looks stupid, but in addition makes no sense.. like trying to milk or pump the battery, or enjoying to hear and feel the bit stop in the workpiece... my only guess is that the user has some idea they can squeeze more torque from the battery by doing this?
Why not just control the pressure, rpm and torque steadily until the bit has done it's job?

... or could it be a nervous behaviour disorder caused by experiencing drilling through a water or mains line? ;D  - Stopping to see if there's any leakage or AC tickling..

Anyhow.. I hope you can explain the reason for this 'method' to me 

Here's a wild and crazy guess.  Maybe these trigger happy people are or were imitating youths enjoy blipping the throttles on their cars and motorcycles, just to hear the noise and feel the torque reaction.  So why not blip the trigger on their drills?

Dave R.

 

[Woodenfish]

I thought it originated in the movie "Wayne's World," where in one scene Garth was playing around with the impact wrench?

 

[mxlars]

I thought it originated in the movie "Wayne's World," where in one scene Garth was playing around with the impact wrench?

Regarding influences by movies.. Little bit weary now, as the Panasonic kit on it's way would perfectly compliment a Stormtrooper, it really struck me when seeing their cordless hammer.. *looks like a Stormtrooper special ops tool/weapon!*   

- And the throttle blipping explanation..well, I think it makes as much sense as blipping the throttle while driving uphill towing a trailer?
But blipping electric or pneumatic tools while unloaded, is ofcourse just fun and sensible function testing before you put it to work, agree? 

* Still have the C12 kit + depthstop and a TS55 w/some rails - just in case you're considering banning me from the forum by now  8)
Think the Panasonic kit will be perfect as a 'second drill', as I really hesitate to use the C12 for rougher, dirty jobs as the retail price for this kit here in Norway is $1350 + $230 for the DD-DC  :

 

[semenza]

Regarding influences by movies.. Little bit weary now, as the Panasonic kit on it's way would perfectly compliment a Stormtrooper, it really struck me when seeing their cordless hammer.. *looks like a Stormtrooper special ops tool/weapon!*   

That just looks cool.  8) I will have to get one to carry around when I am wearing my storm trooper helmet for full face protection in the shop  ;D

Seth

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Is that really a hammer drill, or one of the Pentagon's new personal ray gun models?  I heard it can be used as a hammer dirll just to fool the enemies.

Dave R.

 

[mxlars]

Just received the Panasonic Revolithium models yesterday (impact + drill) and the first impressions are very good, not too much testing yet except from driving a handful of 1/4"x4" (6x100mm) screws into solid wood. 
When using the impact at it's max setting (2300rpm), the screw is flush with the material within 2seconds(!) - AND the rattling of the impact mechanism only engages for the last  15-20mm (~1/2 - 3/4") - it's also a unfamiliar feeling, as so little of the torque is transferred to the hand.. makes you look three times at what just happened, and 'is it really in?'

A few weeks ago I used my C12 to drive the same screws into ceiling joists for a day, it ofcourse did the job really well, but my wrist remembered it for a few days. Had to give the C12 a few breaks during this because of the overheat protection beeping, apart from this it performs much better than it should for a 12v drill 

Not sure if this is the right place for a review of Panasonic tools, I'll just say they are not Swiss Made Fescool precision engineering, but seems extremely well built and solid for being a 'Made in China' tool.
Extremely light and the handles are perfect (for me), the drill runs circles around my aging Hilti 15,6V/3Ah cordless both in torque, speed and ergonomy + it's half the weight..
Panasonic drill is confirmed non-brushless btw. but it's no problem.

Both unit has enough intelligence to protect themself(overheat/overload as the C12) and the battery against draining below safe levels for a li-ion + ofcourse electronics to keep the rpm steady regardless of torque.
The separately operated white led 'worklight' is also a nice feature, will auto shutoff if unit hasnt been used for 5minutes, placement seemed strange (at top of the battery/shoe) but it's perfectly alligned in the center of the action when using a drillbit or bit extender 
Included charger can charge batteries from older Panasonic's, as well as Li-ion up to 28,8v(the sds stormtrooper edition above)

Seems promising, only faults I've found other are mentioning are the handles - to small for large hands in gloves, and a fella who had to change brushes in the drill 2 times in less than a year(bought just after release).

Thanks for reading this far, I'll shutup now and join the topic of this site again 

Have a nice weekend folx!

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Panasonic, apparently, make the best Li-Ion batteries and their next gen batteries are only available in their own machines at the moment. I have played with one of the newer Panasonic at my local Festool dealer and he recommends it over the Festools for heavy duty use.  It seems solid.

I actually bit the bullet for the C12, as the need for an extra driver arose, so now I have both the Makita BDF440SFE (14,4V) and the C12 so with some use I may be able to make a fair comparison. I can say right away that the Makita ergonomy and balance  is superior and for awkward spots it can be held in many different ways and still balance well whereas the C12 - despite the shorter turning radius - feels rightout awkward in some of the spots where the Makita works well.

The trigger of the C12 is not very well placed and is somewhat square in shape. The first job for my C12 was building a shelf and also wallmounting shelves in a walk-in closet. With the angle chuck and the other gizmos the C12 did well and I particularly anjoyed the fast switching.

I like both of them, the Makita feels like it is slightly more powerful and better balanced in hand. The C12 has very high precision and starting and stopping is smoother. It is whisper quiet and I like the magnet on the front, actually came in handy, as did the clip on bungy fastener (accessory).

Though the C12 has buckets of extras it does not have a LED light, something I have found very handy and helpful on the Makita. I haven't put the C12 batteries through any grueling tasks but I expect them to hold up well and probably on par with the Li-Ion for practical purposes (indoor, out of the cold use) but they need to improve the grip and ergonomics.

 

[Ned]

... but they need to improve the grip and ergonomics.

Do you think a T12 would be better?

Ned

 

[Michael Kellough]

Want to get up close and personal with the side of a cabinet?  The C12's eccentric chuck allows that.

Great comparison Dan.

There is another option for those without an eccentric chuck. Extension bit holders will allow you to get fairly parallel to a surface (the longer the extension the better) even when in a regular chuck. The Irwin extensions are good but the best is the Milwakee 6" extension. I wish it was longer but it is best for it's low runout and ability to very securely hold the bit. It even holds Centrotec bits tightly.

 

[Michael Kellough]

I have not noticed that the C12 Jacobs-style chuck slips.    It may, but I haven't noticed it.   The chuck can be tightened with one hand.   (Well two hands actually - one for the drill and one for the chuck. 8) )

I've never had a round bit slip in a tightened Festool chuck. I have had an improperly seated/tightened hex shank bit jar loose.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Apparently Panasonic are pioneering...

As always.
I'm pretty sure Panasonic actually made the AEG cordless drill that NASA used on the first Space Shuttle flight.

"1984
A memorable highlight in AEG history: the design of a special battery drill for NASA Space Shuttle operations.
350 kilometres above the earth, astronaut Bruce McCandles works with an AEG screwdriver"

 

[merklebob]

the c 12 may be a great drill, but i would not buy it based upon htis foney demo.   i didnt see him put 250# on top of the festool like he did on the dawalt.   i dont really know which is really the best drill but i have that dawalt and  it will drill larger hole than that is you let the drill spin like he did the festool.

at least be honest when testing.

 

[petiegolfer]

I have the Panasonic Lithium Drill and Impact driver.

The drill is good, light easy to use and powerful enough for most normal drilling opps. Its not going to do everything but it is small and neat and does the job. Big holes need big drills and they always come with a cord!

The impact driver is a beast for something so small it packs a punch well above its weight. Ive driven in 4inch coach bolts with it no probs. I love it!

The batteries charge quick and stay with it for a long time. I was helping a neighbour with his deck, the drill made the pilot holes a sinch and the impact driver wanged the screws in in no time. The neighbour had an 18 volt BD with old school batteries...it was heavy and slow. The impact driver would do nearly three screws to his one.

As we all know the right tool for the job is key, I thank God for my buddy who is manager of a hire shop and I pray that he A)doesnt ever change jobs and B) dosnt give up the beer that I buy him for letting me have the right tool for the job!

The mini digger for the drive was good fun...even after popping it on its backend (thank goodness for roll over bars!)....but thats another story!

Piers

 

[mastercabman]

the c 12 may be a great drill, but i would not buy it based upon htis foney demo.   i didnt see him put 250# on top of the festool like he did on the dawalt.   i dont really know which is really the best drill but i have that dawalt and  it will drill larger hole than that is you let the drill spin like he did the festool.

at least be honest when testing.

i think he was honest about it!
dewalt started to smoke!!
,as for the c12,you can put 350lbs and it still would not burn.the c12 is design so that you can't hurt it.
i use to work with dewalt,didn't last long!now i work with 2 c12 and love it!
if i have to drill a 3" hole into hard wood,i would use a 1/2" corded drill,not a cordless.
but i agree,i would not just buy the drill just by watching this video.

 

[merklebob]

i generally agree.  but the tool smoked due to his overloading the tool with his weight.  if the tool would have been allowed to spin up some the battery would not of over heat as quickly.    the c12 was allowed to spin and the internal circuit tripped out on a regular bases. 

don't get me wrong i would like to have a c12 but with me 15 other cordless drill and impacts it not justifiable.  i only don't like his testing.  the festool junkie drove the 14" screw.  some day if i find one i going to try my own test. 

what we really need is a impact drill c12 with a clutch.

 

[pingvinlakrits]

Ned: I have not seen or handled the T12.

What is annoying to me is that they seem to be releasing a Li-Ion battery based T12/T15, just after I bit the bullet for the C12. Something I did as I got no indication from any Festool source that a Li-Ion one was even in the pipe. 

How it looks and how it handles is something to see...

 

[merklebob]

that answer would be beneficial as well.  i had bit the bullet and in the 30 day return window.  if it will be in the next 20 i may consider returning the drill.  i did try a 7" screw today and the c12 buried it w/o any issues.

 

[Greg_R]

One down side to lithium from what I've heard is cold weather performance, which the C12 wouldn't suffer from nearly as much...

I think you misheard... it is the exact opposite.  Lithium batteries work very well in colder conditions and hold their charge better & longer over temperature fluctuations.  The main problem with Lithium batteries is that you have to be very careful charging and discharging them (too much or too little charge in the battery will permanently damage it).  High temperature (overheating) is also an issue.  Panasonic monitors every cell in the battery (with automatic shutoff) to prevent these problems.  Panasonic's new Lion charger also works for their old NiMH batteries... this is really nice for previous Panasonic owners who want to still use their old drill (i.e. use the old drill, buy a new impact driver, still use 1 type of charger).

I've been using the Panasonic Lion set for over a year now.  Here is a link to my review after ~ a month of use.  Not much has changed since then.  The Lion drill and driver are lighter then the NiMH drills and the battery longevity (storage and use) has also improved.

If you drive a lot of screws and don't have an impact driver then run out and get one... they make driving lag bolts and screws a total breeze. 

 

[nickao]

Laughed at? The Panasonics have had the best batteries of any cordless since I can remember, in America or anywhere else.

I have used a C12 and I will take my Panasonic any day even my 4 year old model, brushless or not, Li ion or not, Panasonic's rock!

Nickao