Cabinet Finishing

[Scott B.]

Hey Guys

Thought I would archive this here in the Finishing category because I know that a lot of members use HVLP and finish their own projects.

Here is a product to consider if you are not ready to make the leap into lacquers or solvent based products...worth a look if you want something easy to use and producing a really good and durable finish:
https://topcoatreview.com/2018/12/insl-x-cabinet-coat-satin-finish/

Let's talk finishes!

 

[Michael Kellough]

Thanks for posting this Scot. We’ve missed you.

 

[RDMuller]

On new MDF projects, what would you recommend for a primer. I like solvent based as the grain raises much less than water-based. Than put water-based acrylics on top

 

[Scott B.]

Thanks for posting this Scot. We’ve missed you.

You are welcome, Michael, and thank you.

 

[Scott B.]

On new MDF projects, what would you recommend for a primer. I like solvent based as the grain raises much less than water-based. Than put water-based acrylics on top

RD

Gotta be oil on MDF. Funny you should ask, we have been doing a bunch of it lately in our shop and I just recently wrote about it:
https://topcoatreview.com/2018/12/priming-mdf-for-trim-or-cabinet-grade-finishing/

 

[duburban]

I recently did some Kem Aqua + Surfacer on MDF. This finish wasn't super flat/smooth like I had wanted but I could have let it cure longer and spend more time sanding, perhaps 2 coats. I'd like to continue this process for semi/high gloss clear coats for that ikea panel type look.

What are you putting as a top coat for cabinet grade?

 

[tjbnwi]

I use KA+ Surfacer on MDF panels on 5 piece doors all the time. Spray, let set, sand, spray, sand, 2 top coats. No oil for me....

You should make sure your getting the new 5421W  Gen II Surfacer.

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWOEM&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=E64W522

Tom

 

[Scott B.]

I recently did some Kem Aqua + Surfacer on MDF. This finish wasn't super flat/smooth like I had wanted but I could have let it cure longer and spend more time sanding, perhaps 2 coats. I'd like to continue this process for semi/high gloss clear coats for that ikea panel type look.

What are you putting as a top coat for cabinet grade?

Lately, the Cabinet Coat that I linked in the op. Although in 2019 it is a major goal to get into the Kem Aqua world [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] is referencing. Mostly for speed and faster turnaround because we need the production boost of faster primers and paints.

 

[duburban]

I use KA+ Surfacer on MDF panels on 5 piece doors all the time. Spray, let set, sand, spray, sand, 2 top coats. No oil for me....

You should make sure your getting the new 5421W  Gen II Surfacer.

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWOEM&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=E64W522

Tom

Yup. "let set" = a 30 min, hours or a day? I found I absolutely blew through all the surfacer with the recommended tip size. Can't wait to go after it again.

 

[duburban]

I recently did some Kem Aqua + Surfacer on MDF. This finish wasn't super flat/smooth like I had wanted but I could have let it cure longer and spend more time sanding, perhaps 2 coats. I'd like to continue this process for semi/high gloss clear coats for that ikea panel type look.

What are you putting as a top coat for cabinet grade?

Lately, the Cabinet Coat that I linked in the op. Although in 2019 it is a major goal to get into the Kem Aqua world
[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] is referencing. Mostly for speed and faster turnaround because we need the production boost of faster primers and paints.

The SW stores in central VT can get a little fussy trying to get this Kem Aqua in house. I'm sure they're a lot nicer to you!

 

[tiralie]

Lately, the Cabinet Coat that I linked in the op.

I believe that Cabinet coat and any of the urethane/acrylic top coats stand up better to day to day use than Kem Aqua+, although I have never had any call backs or complaints when I used Kem Aqua+ on new or refinishing projects. A four stage can handle the viscosity of Kem Aqua + so it is a good choice but any of the higher viscosity coatings like Cabinet Coat or Emerald are difficult to spray with a turbine HVLP.
If I couldn't get Kem Aqua+ I would use a poly/urethane/acrylic like Cabinet coat and PPG Breakthrough or modified urethane alkyd like SW Emerald.
I have found Wood and Wall or Kem Aqua Surfacer to be a good general primers but I am looking for a better water bourne primer that will seal stains for refinish projects. I am going to use Inslx Aqua lock Plus a try.
Tim

 

[tjbnwi]

I use KA+ Surfacer on MDF panels on 5 piece doors all the time. Spray, let set, sand, spray, sand, 2 top coats. No oil for me....

You should make sure your getting the new 5421W  Gen II Surfacer.

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWOEM&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=E64W522

Tom

Yup. "let set" = a 30 min, hours or a day? I found I absolutely blew through all the surfacer with the recommended tip size. Can't wait to go after it again.

[member=13337]Scott Burt[/member],

During warm months 15 minutes. It can be up to an hour on colder days, I keep the shop at 64ºF.

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

Lately, the Cabinet Coat that I linked in the op.

I believe that Cabinet coat and any of the urethane/acrylic top coats stand up better to day to day use than Kem Aqua+, although I have never had any call backs or complaints when I used Kem Aqua+ on new or refinishing projects. A four stage can handle the viscosity of Kem Aqua + so it is a good choice but any of the higher viscosity coatings like Cabinet Coat or Emerald are difficult to spray with a turbine HVLP.
If I couldn't get Kem Aqua+ I would use a poly/urethane/acrylic like Cabinet coat and PPG Breakthrough or modified urethane alkyd like SW Emerald.
I have found Wood and Wall or Kem Aqua Surfacer to be a good general primers but I am looking for a better water bourne primer that will seal stains for refinish projects. I am going to use Inslx Aqua lock Plus a try.
Tim

[member=7816]Tim Raleigh[/member],

KA+ is an acrylic.

I just did the Breakthrough thing. Had to refinish every cabinet shot with it. For some reason after a week of dry time it looked water spotted. Primers used were Zinsner Smart Prime recommended by the supplier, Wall and Wood and KA Surfacer. I shot samples that the supplier sent out to be tested. It's been 6-7 weeks they PPG lab has had them. So far they have no answer for the surface appearance (well, they did have one suggestion for the issue---I over thinned it, problem with that diagnosis is---I shot it straight out go the can). The colors were an off white and a light green. 

Only issue I've had with KA+ was on a commercial application. The hand soap dispenser dripped on a door edge for 2 years. It did peel the finish on the corner. Took me some creative chemical applications to get the soap out of the wood.

If you want a finish that is as hard as a rock--SW Sayerlack (waterborne) with cross linker. We installed a 680 pound locker top on a wood seat, the last 6" we had to push it in place across the top. Not a scratch in the top. I was impressed.

Tom

 

[tjbnwi]

I recently did some Kem Aqua + Surfacer on MDF. This finish wasn't super flat/smooth like I had wanted but I could have let it cure longer and spend more time sanding, perhaps 2 coats. I'd like to continue this process for semi/high gloss clear coats for that ikea panel type look.

What are you putting as a top coat for cabinet grade?

Lately, the Cabinet Coat that I linked in the op. Although in 2019 it is a major goal to get into the Kem Aqua world
[member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] is referencing. Mostly for speed and faster turnaround because we need the production boost of faster primers and paints.

The SW stores in central VT can get a little fussy trying to get this Kem Aqua in house. I'm sure they're a lot nicer to you!

[member=12487]duburban[/member]

You need to locate a Products & Finishes store. They have certain binders that make the KA+ work better with darker colors. A normal store does not have access to the entire KA product line.

Had issues with the Denver P&F store. The issues I had with them had me considering leaving SW after 60+ years my family has been dealing with them. Took a few phone calls but I got the issues resolved. This was the time period I tried the Breakthrough and M.L. Campbell products. Pretty sure someone at corporate looked up my account and made a phone call.

Tom

 

[duburban]

I have a gallon of Sayerlack Hydroplus to test, meant to do that months ago.

Lately, the Cabinet Coat that I linked in the op.

I believe that Cabinet coat and any of the urethane/acrylic top coats stand up better to day to day use than Kem Aqua+, although I have never had any call backs or complaints when I used Kem Aqua+ on new or refinishing projects. A four stage can handle the viscosity of Kem Aqua + so it is a good choice but any of the higher viscosity coatings like Cabinet Coat or Emerald are difficult to spray with a turbine HVLP.
If I couldn't get Kem Aqua+ I would use a poly/urethane/acrylic like Cabinet coat and PPG Breakthrough or modified urethane alkyd like SW Emerald.
I have found Wood and Wall or Kem Aqua Surfacer to be a good general primers but I am looking for a better water bourne primer that will seal stains for refinish projects. I am going to use Inslx Aqua lock Plus a try.
Tim

[member=7816]Tim Raleigh[/member],

KA+ is an acrylic.

I just did the Breakthrough thing. Had to refinish every cabinet shot with it. For some reason after a week of dry time it looked water spotted. Primers used were Zinsner Smart Prime recommended by the supplier, Wall and Wood and KA Surfacer. I shot samples that the supplier sent out to be tested. It's been 6-7 weeks they PPG lab has had them. So far they have no answer for the surface appearance (well, they did have one suggestion for the issue---I over thinned it, problem with that diagnosis is---I shot it straight out go the can). The colors were an off white and a light green. 

Only issue I've had with KA+ was on a commercial application. The hand soap dispenser dripped on a door edge for 2 years. It did peel the finish on the corner. Took me some creative chemical applications to get the soap out of the wood.

If you want a finish that is as hard as a rock--SW Sayerlack (waterborne) with cross linker. We installed a 680 pound locker top on a wood seat, the last 6" we had to push it in place across the top. Not a scratch in the top. I was impressed.

Tom

 

[AlexThePalex]

Back in the 90'ties when I was still working in my father's spray shop we had a furniture factory next door who exclusively worked with MDF and we had to spray all their work. Can't remember which paint we always used, but it was a high solid water based paint.

 

[Scott B.]

Lately, the Cabinet Coat that I linked in the op.

I believe that Cabinet coat and any of the urethane/acrylic top coats stand up better to day to day use than Kem Aqua+, although I have never had any call backs or complaints when I used Kem Aqua+ on new or refinishing projects. A four stage can handle the viscosity of Kem Aqua + so it is a good choice but any of the higher viscosity coatings like Cabinet Coat or Emerald are difficult to spray with a turbine HVLP.
If I couldn't get Kem Aqua+ I would use a poly/urethane/acrylic like Cabinet coat and PPG Breakthrough or modified urethane alkyd like SW Emerald.
I have found Wood and Wall or Kem Aqua Surfacer to be a good general primers but I am looking for a better water bourne primer that will seal stains for refinish projects. I am going to use Inslx Aqua lock Plus a try.
Tim

The urethane modified acrylics are a nice finish. Emerald is good too. It is interesting, on the tech sheets for cabinet coat they recommend hvlp spraying only, thinned 10% and with a huge needle set. They recommend against atomizing it. We do it with aaa and I know lots of guys who shoot it airless and it sprays and lays fine. Seems like the mfr's sometimes are very conservative in their recommendations. Its important to try products out in our shops and figure out how they might work for us...

It is amazing to me that no mfr has come up with a good cabinet grade latex primer with any kind of stain or grain blocking capacity. I hope one comes out soon. We use Wall and Wood, Multi Purpose and Fresh Start...Fresh Start blocks the best of those 3 but still not anything to write home about. C2 makes a good latex primer with good blocking but its not available in our market. May have to order some up and throw it in the mix as we experiment.

 

[Scott B.]

I use KA+ Surfacer on MDF panels on 5 piece doors all the time. Spray, let set, sand, spray, sand, 2 top coats. No oil for me....

You should make sure your getting the new 5421W  Gen II Surfacer.

DF.jsp?SITEID=SWOEM&lang=E&doctype=PDS&prodno=E64W522

Tom

Yup. "let set" = a 30 min, hours or a day? I found I absolutely blew through all the surfacer with the recommended tip size. Can't wait to go after it again.

[member=13337]Scott Burt[/member],

During warm months 15 minutes. It can be up to an hour on colder days, I keep the shop at 64ºF.

Tom

I'd take an hour on a cold day.

It was about 0* this morning. I started warming the shop at 5:30 to try to get it to 72 for the beginning of our spray session. That took almost 3 hours to achieve. As soon as we start exhausting, it plummets. Good thing is was a short session for just two enormous cabinet doors.

Thats part of why I want at least a faster drying primer that can lay down nice. If I could get to 15-ish minutes, I'd shoot 2-3 coats of primer!

 

[tiralie]

Back in the 90'ties when I was still working in my father's spray shop we had a furniture factory next door who exclusively worked with MDF and we had to spray all their work. Can't remember which paint we always used, but it was a high solid water based paint.

You guys still have way better products than we do over here.

 

[Alan G]

If you want a finish that is as hard as a rock--SW Sayerlack (waterborne) with cross linker. We installed a 680 pound locker top on a wood seat, the last 6" we had to push it in place across the top. Not a scratch in the top. I was impressed.

Tom
[/quote]

What did you spray the sayerlack with?