Cabinet Lifts

[Bikeboy80]

I really do appreciate all of the thoughts on this...

I really am having a tough time with this news about my dad. It's tough to think that a guy that has tought me just about everything I know about this business and that I have worked with since I was a little kid is going to no longer be able to do this stuff. Maybe this is the time to look at a new way of doing it, pick up a 3rd hand or Tjak for the next project and try hanging them one at a time. And if I don't like it I'm sure I would find other uses for the pole.

Agreed I'm not sure why NA is not more accepting of one of the rail mounted systems, looks like they would really be nice to use! The cabinets we install are mostly Kraftmaid semi custom, we do not build any of our own cabinets at this point. So integrating the rail mounts probably is not possible at this point.

 

[builderbob]

I am sorry to hear about your dad. My dad is my idol as well and has taken some steps backwards as he's aging...so I feel for you!

A lot of what I install is Kraftmaid...it's totally doable one piece at a time!  On the other hand, maybe I'll move to PA with you and we can take the area by storm!!!!!

 

[rnt80]

Install the bases and then use these.
http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2010/07/02/super-wicked-awesome-cabinet-jacks/

I remember reading the article a few years ago, I just never got around to building them.  If I did more kitchens I would.

 

[Bikeboy80]

I am sorry to hear about your dad. My dad is my idol as well and has taken some steps backwards as he's aging...so I feel for you!

A lot of what I install is Kraftmaid...it's totally doable one piece at a time!  On the other hand, maybe I'll move to PA with you and we can take the area by storm!!!!!

Deal! [big grin]

 

[builderbob]

Install the bases and then use these.
http://www.thisiscarpentry.com/2010/07/02/super-wicked-awesome-cabinet-jacks/

I remember reading the article a few years ago, I just never got around to building them.  If I did more kitchens I would.

Russ, I have been wanting to build those since  the inception of that article!  You might've just prompted me to soon do that!

 

[BUTTER]

I have a Gil-Lift, and a set of Third Hands, AND a helper! And I'm grateful for all three (especially the helper)

Seriously, the Gil Lift is a great great tool.  I've used it for solo work when I haven't had a helper available, and I've also used when I DO have my helper, but it would be safer, more accurate, and more efficient to have a tool lifting and supporting the work while the humans set/secure things without pressure.

Due to layout and alignment situations, I often have to set the bases first, but even then, the lift can be invaluable for certain situations.  Most of my work is high end custom. We usually use Hafele leveler legs for the bases.  My preference is to use a cleat system for uppers when possible, though not all of the guys I install for accommodate them.

 

[Michael Kellough]

It was already mentioned by DEANsocial!  You quoted his message.  So you know it was already mentioned

Not sure what your point is but if you think I dissed Dean by my post that wasn't my intention.

Believe it or not, not everyone who reads a post from the GB crew takes it as gospel.
I just wanted to provide an American installers argument for his fellow NA installers to use this unfamiliar hardware.
Only a small fraction of the Hafele cabinet hanging hardware is available here and only from a few providers.

One reason is that most construction here is stick frame so it isn't hard to find the studs and screw the cabinets directly to those studs. It's my understanding that there are still a lot of walls in the GB and Europe that are made of various forms of masonry that are much more difficult to fasten boxes to directly. The hanger rail system is great for dealing with that kind of wall but it has advantages that are useful for solo installers especially even when installing on a stud-wall.

 

[jmbfestool]

It was already mentioned by DEANsocial!  You quoted his message.  So you know it was already mentioned

Not sure what your point is but if you think I dissed Dean by my post that wasn't my intention.

Believe it or not, not everyone who reads a post from the GB crew takes it as gospel.
I just wanted to provide an American installers argument for his fellow NA installers to use this unfamiliar hardware.
Only a small fraction of the Hafele cabinet hanging hardware is available here and only from a few providers.

One reason is that most construction here is stick frame so it isn't hard to find the studs and screw the cabinets directly to those studs. It's my understanding that there are still a lot of walls in the GB and Europe that are made of various forms of masonry that are much more difficult to fasten boxes to directly. The hanger rail system is great for dealing with that kind of wall but it has advantages that are useful for solo installers especially even when installing on a stud-wall.

Read it wrong I was referring to the sentence saying no one mentioned the rail system.  I didnt read it in detail and thought you was reffering to the hanging system Dean posted but then said cant believe no one mentioned it.  Thought it was odd lol

SoZ

"I have been using the Camar system for 6 years or so with no problems – just solutions. The hanging rail is so easy, so exact that I’m surprised it hasn’t come up in this discussion"

 

[Michael Kellough]

Read it wrong I was referring to the sentence saying no one mentioned the rail system.  I didnt read it in detail and thought you was reffering to the hanging system Dean posted but then said cant believe no one mentioned it.  Thought it was odd lol

SoZ

"I have been using the Camar system for 6 years or so with no problems – just solutions. The hanging rail is so easy, so exact that I’m surprised it hasn’t come up in this discussion"

I get it now. I didn't write that line. I posted it as a quote from the woodweb site. The guy that wrote it (who had been using the Camar stuff for 6 years back in 2003 when he made that post) made a great argument for the system that I found and wanted to share.

By the way, the Camar stuff seems to no longer be available from Outwater Plastic (one of the few suppliers for hanging cabinet H'ware here). Outwater now only supplies surface mounted Grass hardware, a far cry from the best Hafel stuff.

 

[Distinctive Interiors]

Michael,

Don't discard the possibility of using any stuff made by Grass! They may not be as big as Blum or as well heard of, but they still have a good reputation for making quality stuff. I believe they come from Austria, where there is very little in the way of poor quality.

Tim.

 

[Michael Kellough]

This seems to be the most readily available bracket here. HGH Hardware Supply in the Southeast US.
I'm sure it works fine but it is several features short of the Hafele Libra H2.

Another source of another manufacturer's similar bracket is from Custom Service Hardware.
I'll probably order from CSH as I'm familiar with them and they always handle orders well.

To be fair I'll re-post the Outwater Plastics Grass cabinet suspension hardware link. If anyone knows any other place to get cabinet hanging hardware in the US please post.

Finally found some concealed cabinet hanging brackets from Woodworker's Hardware.

 

[DavidW]

Michael, I've used "True32.com" for Camar products for 8 years, good prices. You have to buy in 100 pc. boxes and the suspension blocks are about $1.33 each. I would recommend using the press in block instead of the screw type that uses 2 #6 x 5/8" screws as I've seen them fail. I tried to remove the press in blocks in melamine and had to break the melamine into pieces.
David

 

[Michael Kellough]

Thanks for the True32 tip David but it would cost me $270 to get a pair. Of course I'd still have 99 pairs left over...

It looks like Camar is distributed here by PMI (Peter Meier Inc.. You can get information on the [url=http://petermeier.com/kitchen-cabinet-hardware-products.asp?ProductGroupID=2&ProductCategory1=44&ProductCategory3=&ProductCategory4=&keyword=&ProductID=&ProductCategory2=270&SpecialDeals=0]Camar/PMI cabinet suspension hardware on the PMI site but you still have to buy cartons of 100 pairs.

PDF of the line is here.

Looks like Woodworkers Hardware is still the best bet for a small quantity, including concealed hangers, unless you prefer the Grass stuff from Outwater Plastic.

 

[Oldwood]

We put the lowers in first & then install the uppers with fridge panels determining the height of the uppers. We built a bunch of the supports as in the attached picture we put the first cabinet up on a pair of supports and level it in in all directions then put up 2 more supports & another cabinet adjust it level with the first and then fasten them together. Once joined together you can remove one or two supports. We have set of legs that slide inside the support box to adjust it up for cabinets over the fridge & stove we use a portable table to set the supports on. Once all the cabinets are level & plum we shim where they are away from the wall and screw it all in. This works well & prevents taking the cabinet face out of square from screwing the cabinet to walls that are not straight & plumb. I have looked at the rail systems but have never pursued it for some reason?

Gerry

 

[justinh]

I found photos of a home made lift on Woodweb and copied it with modifications to suit my needs. I used a Gilift to install many kitchens on a multi unit project a few years ago and while it made the job very easy and fast I had a hard time justifying the cost based on the work that typically comes my way.  The shop made version cost me about $100 in materials and I built it in under a day.

I have been using it the last couple days fitting beams off scaffolding. It works well for holding them immobile while scribing to fit.  I have yet to give it a real workout but I used it to raise and lower one of the other carpenters on the job up 5' and back down and he claims to weigh about 225lbs.

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[AIPDX]

That EZ cabinet lift was one that I had seen, looks really nice. You're right the micro adust knobs look like they would really be handy!

This is an old topic, no updates since 2013. However, I noted a mentioning of micro adjustment knobs. I bought a 24" E-Z lift and it does not have any micro-adjustments. The only "adjustment" is the winch. Click-Click-Click.

I wonder if this is a feature of only 12" lift, or if it was phased out in the recent model(s)?

Aside from this note, it is made like a piece of art. Beautiful fit and finish, for a tool.

 

[jamanjeval]

The cabinets we install are screwed directly into studs when in their final position, there is little or no adjustment once they are in place.

Well, the question has to be asked..........WHY???????

The adjustable system that I'm talking about has been available for over 30years. Is this type of thing just not available in the States????

I am familiar with the hanging strip
But most cabinet here are made the way it has been for years.
I wish NA would adapt that idea but they just like to do thing the old fashion way I guess

Some older metal cabinets, from around the 50's, had a metal strip that went on the wall that the cabinets hung on. It was essentially (exactly?) a french cleat. I'd guess that they make cabinets the way they do in North America is to save costs. The European style leveler legs on base cabinets also make a lot of sense, if you have ever seen those.

I'm sure there are plusses an minuses to each way of doing things.