CAD and SketchUp

[graphex]

Wow, I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread. I was about to start a new thread about CAD and thought I'd do a search real quick first.

I was basically going to see what people thought about the different programs, and if anyone had tried Vellum before. I was gearing up to buy Graphite (basically Vellum 3D) and had tried their 14-day demo, but was unimpressed at how little had happened in the 12 years since I last used it. I also got AutoCAD LT for cheap at CompUSA's fire sale, but found it to be a flaming POS.

Thanks, Michael for the information about Punch!'s offerings and history with the former Ashlar engineers. I really wanted a good CAD program but Graphite was feeling a bit abandoned to me. Time for me to demo ViaCAD and Shark and see if they're Vellum-y enough for me! Even their top-end Shark product is much less than Graphite (and Cobalt is just nuts).

 

[Michael Kellough]

I was gearing up to buy Graphite (basically Vellum 3D) and had tried their 14-day demo, but was unimpressed at how little had happened in the 12 years since I last used it.

I don't use Graphite but it occasionally opens when I double click on a Vellum file and I'm appalled that many of the best features of Vellum are missing. While Vellum 3D isn't fully 3D (it only adds surfaces to geometry) Graphite is strictly 2D (I think). They really want you to use the higher end apps but I still really like Vellum because you basically draw with it. If I were a sculptor I guess I'd be crazy about Sketch-Up. By the way, Vellum was developed in Japan.

 

[Kapitaldream]

I have used AutoCad for close on twenty years, never liked its 3D, when we came across SU. It sure is not intuitive for somebody used to doing 2D with AutoCad. SU obviously works for quite a few people so I think it behooves us to use the tutorials that are out there and run with it. There are probably way better 3D packages out there but none of them are for free and most that I looked at, like SolidWorks, are not cheap.
Steve

 

[graphex]

I don't use Graphite but it occasionally opens when I double click on a Vellum file and I'm appalled that many of the best features of Vellum are missing. While Vellum 3D isn't fully 3D (it only adds surfaces to geometry) Graphite is strictly 2D (I think). They really want you to use the higher end apps but I still really like Vellum because you basically draw with it. If I were a sculptor I guess I'd be crazy about Sketch-Up. By the way, Vellum was developed in Japan.

Hmm, my impression was that Graphite was basically an OSX port of Vellum 3D... at least what I remember Vellum 3D being like. I was demoing version 8 which is pretty new. It just does wireframe, but does do stuff in all 3 directions so it is "3D", and I believe still has the more basic parametrics. No solids or surfaces though. Solids are overrated IMHO - unless you have access to a 3D printer or CNC or something.

I used to do a lot of 3D animation/rendering, but it is so time consuming I never was able to make a very good hourly rate with it. Still, it could be fun, here is an Adirondack chair I first built with FormZ then rendered in ElectricImage:
[attachthumb=#]

I made the mistake of watching the Shark video, and man, those parametrics have come a long way. It would certainly be nice to have a plotter to build full size templates, temporarily glue them to wood, and just cut along the dotted lines.

Even getting a good dimensioned drawing going would sure be helpful, especially if you can run back to the file and get that little odd angle you forgot to throw a dimension on, set the Kapex to that angle, and know that everything will stay true to the spec. It would also be nice to start building a little library of plans to either sell as commercial woodworking plans, or sell the resulting projects as mini production runs.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Hmm, my impression was that Graphite was basically an OSX port of Vellum 3D... at least what I remember Vellum 3D being like. I was demoing version 8 which is pretty new. It just does wireframe, but does do stuff in all 3 directions so it is "3D", and I believe still has the more basic parametrics. No solids or surfaces though. Solids are overrated IMHO - unless you have access to a 3D printer or CNC or something.

Even getting a good dimensioned drawing going would sure be helpful, especially if you can run back to the file and get that little odd angle you forgot to throw a dimension on, set the Kapex to that angle, and know that everything will stay true to the spec. It would also be nice to start building a little library of plans to either sell as commercial woodworking plans, or sell the resulting projects as mini production runs.

That chair is nicely done! Your name makes a lot of sense now. 

If Graphite doesn't add surfaces then you can't have Hidden Line view nor Perspective view. Those are the features I like. A nice clean (to scale) line drawing in perspective that I can move around and study. I usually don't want textures or shadows so even though I have an early version of Cobalt I rarely use it. In fact the only reason I use Cobalt at all is to have access to boolean operations to make forms I can't do (or can't figure out how to do) in Vellum. (I have to export out to Solids and then out to Vellum, and I have to reboot into OS9.2 halfway through). I would love it if Graphite really was an OSX version of Vellum.

I love the idea of SketchUp though and applaud Google for making it available. It's obviously plenty capable and I wish I had enough time to learn it.

 

[graphex]

I stopped using Vellum 3D before it had any surface or solid capabilities... That was like version 1.0.1 probably - we're talking 1993 or so.

Speaking of 1993... 9.2??? I think you're the only one I know who still has a running version of System 9! I can relate to the use of old software - and Vellum was certainly intuitive, but I draw the line at OSX

Have you found much use out of ViaCad? I'm going to do some test driving and will see if I can live with the Pro version, or want shark or am happy with the 3D version...

 

[Michael Kellough]

Have you found much use out of ViaCad?

I don't have it. I bought TurboCad Pro for Mac a couple years ago and rarely touch it. It is actually mostly the same code as Solids/Cobalt (and ViaCad), developed by the same company for Ashlar, and licensed to IMS after those guys split from Ashlar, and then the developer sold out to Punch.

 

[Eli]

I've gone back to the tutorials and I'm happy to say I picked it up without too much further trouble, have used it for some interior renderings and sold a few jobs with it. I've drawn a model of my house and located it on google earth satellite pix. It's really fun and intuitive if you stick with it. My big one is a bar interior. I've been working with the owner to add and subtract features, textures, furniture, etc. It really gives non visual types the idea of what you're talking about quickly.

 

[John Stegall]

"It really gives non visual types the idea of what you're talking about quickly."

I agree totally with that statement. I just could not get into using all of the other CAD programs out there (at least their trial versions). Sketchup (thanks again to Gary Katz) now works quite well for me.
JRS

 

[ccmviking]

I say stick with SketchUp, it is worth the time.

 
Brice,

      I think your animations are pretty neat but I don't see where you get the value in them.  Is it something you use to visualize how you are going to put something together? 

Chris...

 

[ccmviking]

I can see how Gary's video of designing can be used to help sell a project to a customer by allowing them to see it, but I would only do it for one off pieces of furniture like that bookcase.  You really need to get an application that suits your business and needs.  We are General Contractors specializing in Kitchen and Bath Remodels.  As such we have used Planit's Solid Design 4.1 Program and are currently using 20-20 Design Ver. 8.1.  If you are working with cabinetry you don't wanna play around with the crap that sketchup will output.  You'd rather have an output of cabinets/components/accessories to be ordered or Cut Lists if you are going to build them yourself.  20-20 Design and Solid Design are built for that purpose and will give you the detail you need to start cutting.  If you are doing one off furniture for clients Sketchup looks like a good alternative.

Chris...

 

[Jim Becker]

I used to use DesignCAD for project drawings, but switched to SketchUp! a few years ago. (Prior to the free version) The discomfort that most folks have with the program revolves around understanding how it works. This is especially hard for folks used to CAD systems that are based on points, angles and distance. SketchUp! behaves quite differently. Someone at SMC made the statement recently on the same topic that they struggled until some "light bulb" went off and they "got it". That was my own experience. While there are still a few little things that throw me, I'll equate them to not using the tool a lot...I simply don't do a lot of detailed drawings anymore for my projects. What SketchUp! does for me is help me visualize things through completion. Armed with that vision and a few key dimensions, I can go right to building, taking critical measurements directly off the project in progress using story sticks, etc.

 

[butzla]

, click wheel and press/hold the Shift key and pan to right, wheel to zoom in, etc.   Try it out.

Regards,

Dan.

Dan I never knew about that shortcut....thanks.  I love Sketchup!