CANCELLED - Festool Carvex Jigsaw 2011 Version

[Mavrik]

Now that I have used this saw (at a class in Indiana), I know that I really want it.

Have you suffered any seizures since then?
Perhaps you enjoyed it too much, and there is a finite limit to the the amount of happiness you're allowed to feel?
And what exactly do you people in NA do with your tools that the rest of us don't?
That is so obscure and obscene that they make it illegal for you to even buy them ...

 

[tallgrass]

Ok. this is to the members in the rest of the world....i want one......i know festool dealers cannot sell outside of their areas but people can do what they want......I live in the festool Bermuda triangle that is called the USA...so here it is, since i do not need the charger and the batteries are interchangeable, will someone sell me one? i will obviously pay for shipping ,you can even keep the charger.. PM me....or maybe we could have a group buy through private party. just a thought. instead of further weegee board speculation i figured i would just salve the problem.

 

[GPowers]

Greg,

The new release date for the Carvex is scheduled for the day after you buy a jigsaw.  Christian has been planning this for a while, hoping you'll give up and buy that Harbor Freight closeout.  Otherwise, in the meantime, you might want to try one of those 2-man saws.  [tongue]

I was thinking that it would released 30 days after I buy somthing else. The day after would be great as I would still be in the 30 day return period [big grin]

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I would be happy to learn that this is, indeed, just a delay.  ???  My interpretation of the notice that Festool sent to their dealers, is that there is some  possibility that the Carvex may never be released in North America.   ???

From the statement about the delayed introduction of the Carvex:

We will continue to refine the new jigsaw’s design, with the full expectation that the Carvex will be introduced at a later date, executed in a manner that will be satisfying to even the most demanding customer. As this process unfolds, updates will be announced on our website and through our email newsletter.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Now that I have used this saw (at a class in Indiana), I know that I really want it.

Have you suffered any seizures since then?
Perhaps you enjoyed it too much, and there is a finite limit to the the amount of happiness you're allowed to feel?
And what exactly do you people in NA do with your tools that the rest of us don't?
That is so obscure and obscene that they make it illegal for you to even buy them ...

I would love to have a Carvex.  I was waiting, too.  But as an Ergonomics Engineer, I am reminded that other people have certain capabilities and limitations that others do not.  As both a legal and ethical consideration, companies are compelled to produce equipment that accounts for these capabilities and limitations, and does not aggravate conditions that already exist.

There are too many of these conditions to be able to design and account for all of them, or the wide variation of symptoms/triggers.  And you can't feasibly design and account for combinations of conditions (e.g. deafness and blindness, blindness and motor control, etc.).  But a company needs to be responsible and accommodate those limitations it can feasibly accommodate.  It isn't that hard to do, and those who do not have limitations generally benefit from the engineering and solutions used to accommodate those limitations.  Some examples would be curb cuts and close captioning.  These are both accessibility-related accommodations that are put to good use by those without accessibility issues.

Another consideration is government or contractual business.  Some governments, such as the U.S., and some businesses write purchasing requirements that the equipment must meet certain accessibility standards.  If the equipment does not, then you don't get that business.  I've seen contracts lost due to this.  Just another consideration to think about that if this were the reason, may have had an effect on that decision.

Finally, as people without disabilities, we forget about the experiences of those who do.  This may sound touchy-feely, but there are many people who are left out of participating in certain activities in life because they weren't considered during the equipment design.  As much as we don't like it and like to lampoon it, its not ethical to exclude their participation in our activities because of different capabilities.  Imagine limiting an activity to an individual to do race or gender, and you'll understand how unethical it is.

I don't have an answer to why this is available in Europe and not in North America.  But as disappointed as we all are, we need to have faith that there was some good and compelling reason to either delay or postpone the release of this tool.  And please remember, its only a jigsaw, its not the second coming of your deity.  We need to keep it in perspective.

 

[Frank Pellow]

I would be happy to learn that this is, indeed, just a delay.  ???  My interpretation of the notice that Festool sent to their dealers, is that there is some possibility that the Carvex may never be released in North America.   ???

From the statement about the delayed introduction of the Carvex:

We will continue to refine the new jigsaw’s design, with the full expectation that the Carvex will be introduced at a later date, executed in a manner that will be satisfying to even the most demanding customer. As this process unfolds, updates will be announced on our website and through our email newsletter.

Thanks Shane, I concede that the phrase  full expectation is a positive indication that the Carvex will eventually be released here.

 

[GPowers]

So with the Carvex delay, and who know how long it will be . I will most likely buy the corded Trion PS 300 EQ for now. And then when the Carvex is released again I will get the cordless model.  [wink]

 

[AlexThePalex]

I've been following this highly entertaining thread for some time now but I've tried to stay out of it because I can't in any way relate to the disappointment expressed here about the Carvex's cancellation/postponement. In that light the most sensible remarks in this thread were, in my humble opinion, made by Darcy (with screen name WarnerConstCo). After all, it's just a tool, nothing more, and there are many alternatives available.

It is not as if your new baby is stillborn.

It was also entertaining to read all the speculation about the reason why. Amongst a couple of 'out of this world' posibilities there certainly are some more plausible theories amongst them. The debate seems to center most on the on-board stroboscope. And that's where I'd like to add my 2 cents because unfortunately some people seem to be a bit off with their facts in this matter, Rick Christopherson being the most proliferant. And unfortunately some other people, looking upon Rick as an authority on Festool because of his manuals, follow up on his mistake.

Unlike others, I have no problem providing some links to back up my claims.

As for the further speculation of a stroboscopic effect inducing seizures, this too doesn't stand to logic. In order for a stroboscopic effect to result in a seizure, it must occur at a frequency within visual perception of the human mind.

This is a bit vague. What is the 'visual perception' of the human mind exactly? Because when it comes to frequencies, the mind has an enourmous capacity for visual perception. For instance, it can distinguish with great certainty between different colours in light, colours that are detected by the retina of the eye and processed in the mind. Light is a form of electromagnetic radiation in the frequency range of 405 THz to 790 THz. THz stands for Tera Hertz, and Tera means a 1 with 12 zero's. That's a huge number.

That's way above the 10 Hz Rick mentions, and the human mind can perceive it perfectly.

This means it must occur significantly BELOW 10 hertz

But let's stay a bit closer to home. After all, light's frequencies are a bit high and I don't think many people get seizures simply by opening their eyes. Let's look at the more sensible frequencies that computer screens use.

Everbody knows about computer screens. Everybody who bought them over the last decade knows that they have a refresh rate. And everybody knows that monitor refresh rates can influence you, causing fatigue, eye strain and headaches. These were most proliferant with older monitors that had a 60 Hz refresh rate. That's why over time the refresh rates have gone up from 60 to 75 to 100 and 120 or more. It is a well known fact that these refresh rates can have very prolific effects on people who are sensitive to them. Like epileptics.

If those refresh rates affect you, it means your mind can perceive them. That puts the human visual perception up to 60-120 Hz already, also above but already a lot closer to the 10 Hz mentioned by Rick.

However, the speed range of the tool is 500 sps to 3800 sps, which is far above the stroboscopic rate necessary to induce seizure.

And this is where Rick goes entirely wrong. First off, I don't know exactly what sps means. Tried to Google it but the only relation to frequencies I could find for this abreviation is Samples Per Second, and I don't think the Carvex has anything to do with music like my multitrack software does.

But we're talking Hertz here,and Hertz is measured per second, so I guess 3800 sps must mean 3800 Strokes Per Second or something like that. That would be some jigsaw, wouldn't it? That's an absolute beast! I'd buy that for a dollar! That would cut your 8x4 sheet in half in under 2 seconds. Think about the time and money saved!

Unfortunately the Carvex' rpm is 1500-3800 strokes per minute which is 60 times slower. In Hertz, this translates to 25-60 Hertz.

And yes, 25 to 60 Hz is well within the range of photosensitive epileptics. Don't believe my word for it, believe the University of Wisconsin or the Epilepsy Foundation or Epilepsy.com. Their consensus is that most photosensitive epileptics are susceptible for the ranges between 5 and 30 Hz, but some cases even up to 50 or 60 Hz. And that's precisely the range in which the Carvex' stroboscope pulses.

So if there's any theory plausible, it's this one. Or perhaps not. Perhaps there's some other mystery reason nobody thought of yet. Frankly, I care little. What is not plausible is that the Carvex is somehow not up to Festool's standards or has a technical defect 'specific to North America'. What a load of bollocks. If that were so, Festool wouldn't have released the Carvex in Europe and the rest of the world either. Yes, the Carvex had some teething problems, like a lot of new products have, but they've been adressed and the Carvex is a fully functioning product now.

 

[peter halle]

I am going to step in here now.

For those of you outside of North America - Buy, enjoy, and use your Carvex.

For those in North America - It isn't coming yet.  Just as you have read about the customer service in NA that is different than elsewhere, relish the fact that they had additional testing done specific to how you might use it and then - in spite of what might be negative PR and press - decided to say "Not Yet"

We - including me - don't know why.  Please work to make it right with yourself that you may never know why.

Everyone here has seen, or had the opportunity to see the videos of this tool.  The technology wrapped into this is far beyond what is available elsewhere.  The North American market is different as well as the thinking of the Festool USA family.  A perfect example - this forum.  International users get their info here.

Based on my experiences with it - just like the RO90 in certain applications kicked it up a notch - so will the Carvex.  Trust the guys who sell tools for a living and could have sold a whole bunch but who said not yet.  Wouldn't you respect a contractor who said - "I am not happy with the way it turned out.  Nothing major, I just don't like a couple of things.  I want to make it right?"

I heard about this tool in 2009 and was excited.  I am still excited and can't wait to see the reactions of you guys once you get it in your hands - just be patient.

Peter

 

[mastercabman]

Me,I've heard something different about why it was cancelled/delayed.
Apparently,the Carvex does not live up to what "North Americains" are expecting.
It seems that the Carvex does not cut as straight(in very thick material)as it should.I don't know what thickness we are talking about.
Maybe someone can verify this,but the Carvex uses a different type of blade guide? And that's what causing the problem.
This is what i was told.

 

[nehardwoodfloors]

Drama queens  [eek]
And what's this about a sophisticated  jigsaw?  [tongue]

 

[NuggyBuggy]

Wouldn't you respect a contractor who said - "I am not happy with the way it turned out.  Nothing major, I just don't like a couple of things.  I want to make it right?"

But if the contractor told me the job would be finished by a certain date, but then said he needed some unspecified amount of time to fix a couple of things, and refused to tell me what those things were, he'd be forcing me to speculate.

 

[zzzzdoc]

Like most of you, I also had a deposit on a Carvex.  I hate buying tools twice, and have desperately needed a jigsaw for a few of my projects lately, but I've held off buying an inferior tool while waiting for June 1st.  So I'm pretty bummed, too.

None of us know why the Carvex is delayed.  All of us hope it isn't cancelled.

It may have absolutely nothing to do with the strobe.  Or it might have everything to do with the strobe.  WE DON'T KNOW.

I do wish they were more forthcoming as to the cause.  Probably not wise in a business perspective, but I'm as curious as the next guy.

Basically, just bummed out.

 

[tallgrass]

yup,,, i have not changed my mind... i am willing to settle with what is good enough for the rest of the world and am willing to buy one from someone in the rest of the world...obviously private party...please!!!

 

[Rob Z]

It looks like I am on the same page as Warner Construction.  This thing is just a tool, and there are other tools that will work well until this new tool is available.  

I'm not emotionally attached to anything other than my family members.  (I will admit to being a bit sentimental about  some tools that belonged to my grandfather and great grandfather, some of which I still use in the shop and the field).

I don't think anyone is owed anything other than a deposit paid for the tool.  I'm going to go use my Trion today and make some money and finish a job.

 

[jmbfestool]

OFF-Topic

6555 views and 166 posts in such a short time  WOW 

Jmb

 

[peter halle]

Festool USA has announced that they are indefinitely delaying the release of the much anticipated Festool Carvex Jigsaw. Although this is a real disappointment to many here, it is a testament to the high standards that Festool USA holds themselves (and Festool Germany) to.
I wanted to give you guys a heads up on this. I know many of you here are in touch with Sean and I on a regular basis, so I decided to post this on the forum so all of you can be aware as well as provide a venue to dispel any rumors. I am sure Shane at Festool will pop his head in here soon.

We here at the “Nut” will continue to keep all our customers in the loop as the developments unfold over the next several weeks and months in regards to the Festool Carvex Jigsaw. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news guys.

David Murry
General Manager
Tool Nut

914-621-0200

The official announcement:

Quote:

INFORMATION SERVICE FOR FESTOOL DEALERS
#13-2011

Special Announcement – Carvex Launch Postponed

Dear Festool Dealer,

At Festool we take great pride in delivering the most innovative and useful products available, while applying the highest possible quality standards. Though our tools are used by consumers at many levels, they are ultimately designed for the most demanding professionals, many of whom rely on them for their livelihood.

As a premium brand, our customers have extremely high expectations of us, and it is our ceaseless commitment to meet these expectations, oftentimes at great cost and effort.  Our unwillingness to compromise means that we sometimes have to make hard choices.

With these factors in mind, we have decided NOT to introduce the Carvex jigsaw to the US and Canadian markets at this time. Late round testing in certain applications specific to North America has demonstrated that the current design does not meet the exacting standards that we demand of ourselves, and that our customers have come to expect.

Though we are certain that the Carvex, in its current configuration, would be an excellent tool for nearly any user, we believe that launching it as is would mean compromising many of the values that make us who we are today.

For now, we are sorry that we have to disappoint you.  We believe, however, that we would have disappointed a few of you even more, had we introduced a product that didn’t meet the level of quality and precision you have come to rely on from Festool.

We will continue to refine the new jigsaw’s design, with the full expectation that the Carvex will be introduced at a later date, executed in a manner that will be satisfying to even the most demanding customer.  As this process unfolds, updates will be announced on our website and through our email newsletter.

Thank you for your understanding and for your continued support of the Festool Brand.  

Sincerely,

Christian Oltzscher
President and CEO
Festool USA

The original poster intended that this thread be used to inform the members here and to be used as a venue to dispel any rumors.  What has resulted is speculation and rumors.

The official statement from Festool indicates that dealers will be made aware of developments in the future.  There isn't any additional forthcoming as of this time.

EDIT:  We have received numerous complaints regarding what some have considered personal attacks.  Personal attacks will be handled immediately with content deleted. 

If you want to vent please keep it polite and remember that speculation is just that.  I am sure that when more information is available and ready to be shared, it will be.

Peter Halle - moderator

 

[GPowers]

The Cancellation of the Carvex, in the NA, is not the end of the world. After all Festool still has the PS300 Trion Jig saw in their product line. It is not like the CMS that NOTHING is available from Festool.

 

[fdengel]

And yes, 25 to 60 Hz is well within the range of photosensitive epileptics. Don't believe my word for it, believe the University of Wisconsin or the Epilepsy Foundation or Epilepsy.com. Their consensus is that most photosensitive epileptics are susceptible for the ranges between 5 and 30 Hz, but some cases even up to 50 or 60 Hz. And that's precisely the range in which the Carvex' stroboscope pulses.

Does it?

Or does it flash once for every N strokes?

Not that it really matters, this obviously isn't the issue anyway... obvious unless a Festool USA employee is epileptic and was assisting in that late-round testing, anyway...

 

[Wim]

I stay out of this discussion because I have no inside information to go on. I'm only wondering what comes first: the launch of the Carvex or the end of this thread.
When the carvex comes, I will order one for sure.