carpentry business

What it includes in $100000 permit ready site.
Here in Ontario, building permit is $1 per sq.ft of foundation.
 
DanielOB said:
A house is just a most basic need for human, the same as food.
Click to expand...

Daniel, I think you might be drawing a wrong conclusion here? Or at least one that is irrelevant to your situation. Yes, everyone needs a place to live - just like they need food to eat. But the market dictates that the lower the price, the more likely your chance of success versus the other guy. Think '99¢ Menu'.

And are you aware of the margins in the grocery business? Because food IS a necessity, the competition is fierce. They make as little as 2% on the basics. So to use your example of a $380,000 house, your reward for 5 months of hard work would be $7600. Assuming a standard 40-hour week, that works out to $8.76 per hour. I don't know about you, but I couldn't live on that.

 
Yes, but there are often entitlement costs…Water/Sewer tap fees (or septic), and other costs.  Either you can buy a developed lot that is "permit ready" (and a finished lot would cost $70,000-$100,000 for a basic one in my back yard).  Then you apply for a permit and pay the permit fee.

Or you develop the site from raw land and spend a TON on infrastructure, that averages into $70,000-$100,000 per lot.

DanielOB said:
What it includes in $100000 permit ready site.
Here in Ontario, building permit is $1 per sq.ft of foundation.
Click to expand...
 
the sewer and municipality water are already there.

Yes i have to leaRn more about all that papers

i never could imagine to get so many nice advices on internet. thank you guys for your time spent to open my eyes
 
the house i make is similar to Europian castles, three cylindrical parts with very complicated interupted cones as roof connected all in one unit with small straight roof. i also woyld not compare workmanship of that house with my house... My house is all new... and in large city at good location

as for price, i can put any price i sniff it good. the whole point is this is SURE business.
 
Do you already own a developed lot?  Having sewer and water on location is different than paying the Tap fees to gain "permission" to tie into the supply (at least where I live in the USA). 

No offense intended, but you seem pretty green for such an ambitious venture.  No computer program or 3d architectural software can help you anticipate everything.  Approvals, entitlements, fees, and uncertainties are your companions as a homebuilder. 

Bottom-line, there is likely many things you may not be considering.

Whatever you do, don't rely on the friendly advice you get online.  Do your research, and be very cautious. 

DanielOB said:
the sewer and municipality water are already there.

Yes i have to leaRn more about all that papers

i never could imagine to get so many nice advices on internet. thank you guys for your time spent to open my eyes
Click to expand...
 
i do not like computers. but this software allow to put snow and any other load on rhe house, and you can see how each stud bends and how many milimeters or inches. One can have all receptacles showng, nails counted, how all loads transfeer on the foundation... And it all is long-short accurate. no pencil in any enginner can do it all during one life cycle only. there no suxh engineers to disapprove the project. might be this all is all new way in architecture not seen before...
 
i will pay extra attention to that fees, ... My cousin spent life as manager in big construction company in Toronto Ontario. After all your advices i will contact him.
Thank you guys
 
DanielOB said:
i do not like computers. but this software allow to put snow and any other load on rhe house, and you can see how each stud bends and how many milimeters or inches. One can have all receptacles showng, nails counted, how all loads transfeer on the foundation... And it all is long-short accurate. no pencil in any enginner can do it all during one life cycle only. there no suxh engineers to disapprove the project. might be this all is all new way in architecture not seen before...
Click to expand...

I'm also a (mechanical) engineer and spent a year working at an industry leading FEA company creating training manuals for the type of software you're talking about.  I also spend 60+% of my time in CAD doing design on a daily basis.  No tool is of any use unless the person holding it knows how to master it - this is especially true for the software you're talking about.  It takes years of daily use and studying to master those tools, the same as any trade.  Basically my point is building a house at a high level is extremely complicated and requires tons of specialized skills.  Even if you have a super computer telling you that your joist hangers won't fail under 6' of snow that's just one extremely small detail in the big picture to think about.  Just my 2 cents, but if it were as easy to build a house of the complexity you're talking about and to sell it so far below market then everyone would already be doing so.
 
bmwboston said:
I'm also a (mechanical) engineer and spent a year working at an industry leading FEA company creating training manuals for the type of software you're talking about.  I also spend 60+% of my time in CAD doing design on a daily basis.  No tool is of any use unless the person holding it knows how to master it - this is especially true for the software you're talking about.  It takes years of daily use and studying to master those tools, the same as any trade.  Basically my point is building a house at a high level is extremely complicated and requires tons of specialized skills.  Even if you have a super computer telling you that your joist hangers won't fail under 6' of snow that's just one extremely small detail in the big picture to think about.  Just my 2 cents, but if it were as easy to build a house of the complexity you're talking about and to sell it so far below market then everyone would already be doing so.
Click to expand...

You are spot on with this advice. 

In my previous career, I remember having an employee say "I could do your job" and my response was "It's hard to know what you don't know."  Experts can make the most difficult accomplishments look easy but they are only able to do so because of talent, training, and experience.

I've been in the construction business for over 16 years and still learn something new every day.  Most people have no idea how complicated a homebuilding project can be if you are actually running it hands on.  More than anything else, you need to understand the intricacies of every trade to set the standards and make sure they are met (otherwise they will operate to minimum standards set by the building code - "Congratulations, you got a D on your exam!").  A big picture guy who delegates everything to the specialists will not produce the same quality house as someone who can actively lead and direct the construction process.  There's an easy way and a right way to do everything and they usually aren't the same.  It's too easy to cut corners when no one is looking or they don't really know what they are looking at.

I once had a customer ask me how much he could save by building his own house.  My answer was nothing and it might even cost more.  I explained that he didn't know the first thing about the process and wasn't going to learn enough about it in a book or on the internet or by watching cable television to be effective.  Additionally, he didn't have any builder discounts at the major suppliers and wasn't likely to get them for one house.  Finally, he didn't have a selection of specialty trades that had been vetted through years of working together and even if he used mine, they would not give him the same pricing or priority that they would give me because he wouldn't be an ongoing source of work like a real homebuilder.

Something else I've learned over the years is some people ask for advice but don't want to listen when it is given.
 
my dear i have 20+ years experience with all of that software, and house project is nearly done. around 4000 parts in one part file (not assembly) c.100 mb, and even nails included.
The problem with computer is that all is perfectly straight but in realite is different. And that problem is past tens to me. A garden shed 4x5m done in 4 days (concrete curing not included) after computer project was done. It goooo faaast.
Wharever you know is easy, whatever you do not know is dificult.
To many green Fea engs all is fixed constrant, it is all they know, let alone to read fea result. I can see you are also green eng. FEA result is only one equation less in manual calculation on c. 3 pages A size. There are soooo many things beside FEA to get final stress.
Construction companies are not able to use that softwares due to organization and people problems
 
You seem to have it all figured out and don't want any of the sage advice people are offering you, But here you have it. You will not be able to build a completely custom home that is the nicest place in the neighborhood for half the price of what a professional builder who already does this for a living can. 5 months for you to build this house from the ground just by hiring "some muscle" once in a while? Your delusional right now friend. Is your computer program going to also be cutting all of these complex jigs and patterns for you? Doing the physical work involved?

I make my living with my hands and I couldn't build a bare- bones house that size with cheap finished in 5 months but your going to build a European castle? You need to temper your expectations or you are going to lose your shirt fast. That's coming from a place of not wanting you to fail, not trying to be rude.
 
You are about to make the largest gamble of your life.  Let's just make the assumption that you actually get this thing built.  And that the time and costs are somewhere close to what you expect.  Great.

But now you have to get rid of it.  I don't know about your area and what style of homes are selling, but I would not imagine that a Euro style castle with three turrets would fit into many neighborhoods without sticking out like a sore thumb.  Also I doubt that you will have a throng of people lining up to buy it.  You can always try to entice potential buyers by offering it a minimal profit, but you will also have one thing going against you - your first house will be an odd house for the area, priced cheaply, and built by someone with no experience.  It takes years to build a reputation and years to learn how to do this and meer moments to make a huge mistake.  If I were to go out and buy a house that was different and inexpensive and done by a new comer to the industry I assure you that I would be wondering why and what shortcuts were done.

Oh and then there is the financing issue.  I would assume that you are financing this out of your own pocket and not counting on get financing thru a tradition lending source such as a bank.  If financing is in your plans I would suggest that you work on that end first just in case it doesn't pan out.

Peter
 
To build on what Peter, said you will be making negative income for AT LEAST 5 months. If you are financing you will either need to make sure you have that many months worth of bills/living expenses set aside or will need to finance that amount also. You will have no money coming in until you sell that house. Do you have a family to support? A family that would like to see you for the next half a year? Because you will have to be at that project 24/7 (seriously 168 hours per week) to build a house from breaking ground to finish in that kind of time by yourself.

Maybe being the GC on this project and subbing out the more time consuming work would be wiser for your first time. You'll make less profit but there is still money to be made and experience to be gained. I think you'll be overwhelmed with the workload and details involved with just managing a job of this size and will appreciate our advice.
 
many advices here are very useful, and i am going to print it and read it over and over. I turned to housing business fast way because i realized it is the only business today worth considering in Canada, Ontario.
Last year i stoped over to watch four guys seting floor joists. Later pn on the same house two guys setting plywood on rafters (roof). That moment i got an idea. To me it all was soooo slow. Thanks to all of you for your time. You guys are incredible useful. I am just sorry i cannot show you how all this system works. You will be left dropped mouth open...
 
DanielOB said:
my dear i have 20+ years experience with all of that software, and house project is nearly done. around 4000 parts in one part file (not assembly) c.100 mb, and even nails included.
The problem with computer is that all is perfectly straight but in realite is different. And that problem is past tens to me. A garden shed 4x5m done in 4 days (concrete curing not included) after computer project was done. It goooo faaast.
Wharever you know is easy, whatever you do not know is dificult.
To many green Fea engs all is fixed constrant, it is all they know, let alone to read fea result. I can see you are also green eng. FEA result is only one equation less in manual calculation on c. 3 pages A size. There are soooo many things beside FEA to get final stress.
Construction companies are not able to use that softwares due to organization and people problems
Click to expand...

Planning any project is key, and doing so in CAD can be a huge help too.  However, it isn't a novel idea like you seem to think it is.  2D CAD has been used in the AEC space since it's existence, but 3D CAD is all over the place too.  I'm sure you've heard Frank Gehry.  He's designed a custom solution alongside CATIA to do the complete planning for his (orders of magnitude more complicated) construction projects, and he employs an entire company.  Blu Homes does exactly what you're proposing, and already has their factory, subcontractors, and process completely in place.  Check out their pricing options, they're all about 2x your estimates, and quote about 13 months from design to completion.  There are tons of other companies that also work with prefab homes. 

It really comes back to what Joe said, you don't know what you don't know.  The reason there are different tradespeople for foundation, framing, electrical, plumbing, etc. isn't because they don't have expensive software, it's because it's impossible (and costly/time consuming) to know everything.  I'm not doubting your ability or trying to rain on your parade, just keep in mind that what you're talking about has been done many times in the past.  Try not to miss the forest for the trees.
 
Am I right in thinking your previous job didn't involve carpentry?

Also, you keep harping on about being able to do CAD and such.. I haven't known a single build which works without any hiccups going to architects drawings. There is ALWAYS something that needs changing..

~WW
 
This is probably a dead thread, but if the OP does come back here; With you plethora of experience with engineering tools, why not get a job as an engineer?  Even if everything does go to plan, its going to be a ton of late nights and backbreaking labor.  With 20 years of experience you'd probably be making significantly more at a good engineering company.

That being said, FEA really has no place in home design.  For one thing its just going to confuse the PEs and inspectors.  For another, any of the calculations to be made in home design can be done much faster with a pen and paper based on long established formulas.  Sure those are going to be conservative, but up sizing a beam is alot cheaper and safer than spending hours analyzing it.

Course that being said, I have made a FEM of half my house.  [embarassed]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top