Carvex 420 first impressions

[JGVilla]

Hallo,

Forum Moderator note: In the spirit of full disclosure, the tests, article and videos below were sponsored by a Mafell dealer in the Netherlands.

Over here in Holland they are testing a series of high-end jig-saws:



ALSO:

http://www.gereedschappro.nl/nieuws/decoupeerzaagtest-jig-saw-test-teaser.html

These are some initial results as tests are still going on.

Jan

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Is it the same blade (identical) in both jigsaws?  If not, how can you truly compare them or any?

 

[jmbfestool]

Is it the same blade (identical) in both jigsaws?  If not, how can you truly compare them or any?

Says in the write up they use the same type of blade....?

Also on the video he says that's the second blade the festool ps420 has bent.

Also in the write up he mentions the amount of movement in the blade which is what I have a massive problem with my carvex is at when you pull the jig saw back it moves forward so much it comes out of its guide system which is crap.

Jmb

 

[JGVilla]

Is it the same blade (identical) in both jigsaws?  If not, how can you truly compare them or any?

Ken,

In all tests with all 5 jigsaws we used the same Brand/Type of blades.
The "bending" happened on both test runs with the Carvex 420.
However maybe this type of blade was a fraction too short for the Carvex 420?
Next saterday we'll do the same test again, but this time with the Festool S145/4.
Hopefully we can find the new type.
Anyway all jigsaws will use a brand new S145/4 in the same block of wood.
Stay tuned for the results,

Jan

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Thanks Jan.  Can't wait to see further results!  Maybe the Carvex in any iteration is a flop?  Wonder if the plastic housing of the Carvex would fit the Mafell.  Then Festool could swap housings, call it their own, throw Mafell a few bucks for the innards, sell a boat load and everyone's happy.  Either that or hire Darcy to paint the housings and throw on a Festool sticker.  [scratch chin]

 

[jmbfestool]

That's a feature I do like about the mafel is that the blade is a lot lower so your basically getting a longer blade.

.  I do wish I bought the mafel jigsaw.  But then again one reason I went for festool was because i wanted a cordless jigsaw so mafel make a cordless version!

Jmb

 

[vkumar]

How was the quality of cut?

 

[neth27]

That's a feature I do like about the mafel is that the blade is a lot lower so your basically getting a longer blade.

.  I do wish I bought the mafel jigsaw.  But then again one reason I went for festool was because i wanted a cordless jigsaw so mafel make a cordless version!

Jmb

The same reason i bought the Carvex instead of the Mafell... My Carvex  lasted two weeks before it went on Ebay.
I like the look of the Mafell but it is way to expensive for a mains powered jigsaw.. i ended up getting the Bosch GST140,but waiting for Hilti to bring out a cordless 22v jigsaw  [big grin]

John..

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

You can see the pendulum stroke set to 0 on the Carvex at 0:05 in the video and set to maximum on the Mafell. Not exactly a fair comparison. The Carvex has a higher oscillation per minute rate (3800 vs. 3000 on the Mafell), which would lead one to believe it would cut faster under the same conditions and with the same blade.

The blade will get very hot if the carbide jaws are set too tight on the blade. You can see a black line on the back of the blade almost instantly in the video once the cut starts which would indicate that it's not set properly. It got so hot that the blade was able to bend. You can see it red hot at the end of the cut where it makes contact with the jaws.

I think the person doing the tests needs to better understand how to properly operate the tools in order to conduct an unbiased and fair test.

Just my  [2cents]

 

[neth27]

You can see the pendulum stroke set to 0 on the Carvex at 0:05 in the video and set to maximum on the Mafell. Not exactly a fair comparison. The Carvex has a higher oscillation per minute rate (3800 vs. 3000 on the Mafell), which would lead one to believe it would cut faster under the same conditions and with the same blade.

The blade will get very hot if the carbide jaws are set too tight on the blade. You can see a black line on the back of the blade almost instantly in the video once the cut starts which would indicate that it's not set properly. It got so hot that the blade was able to bend. You can see it red hot at the end of the cut where it makes contact with the jaws.

I think the person doing the tests needs to better understand how to properly operate the tools in order to conduct an unbiased and fair test.

Just my  [2cents]

Stop trying to make excuses  [big grin] [big grin] just admit the Carvex is c**p..

John...

 

[RC]

Well, actually at the end of the video when displaying the bent blade the pendulum action is maxed out on Carvex as well.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Well, actually at the end of the video when displaying the bent blade the pendulum action is maxed out on Carvex as well.

True, I didn't notice that. I should have been more careful in my assessment. I guess we're left to guess since you can't see what it's set to during the cut. The base has even been removed by the time we get a look at the setting after the cut.

Here's a video showing a nearly identical cut. Much faster.



Like I said, I've made that cut and it doesn't take nearly that long with the Carvex. Of course, a bent and tempered blade may also have contributed.

I just don't think this is an accurate depiction of the cut speed of the Carvex.

 

[woodguy7]

What system do Mafell use to hold their blades ?  Do you have to get an allen key from the box & flaff around trying to set the guides to each blade ?  Also, does the Mafell come in a systainer ?

I think you know where i am going with these questions 

 

[neeleman]

The blade will be secured by a wedge.

The Mafell comes in a white Classic Systainer with red latches, which they call Mafell-Max.

Below is a picture of the blade change of the Mafell. It's done just below the knob so no allen key needed.

 

[neth27]

The blade will be secured by a wedge.

The Mafell comes in a white Classic Systainer with red latches, which they call Mafell-Max.

Below is a picture of the blade change of the Mafell. It's done just below the knob so no allen key needed.

I think he was taking the pi** with the questions  [smile]

John...

 

[richard.selwyn]

I'm hoping to get a 420 to replace my original Carvex sometime soon, thanks to the kind people at Festool France (after they had the 400 back for the 4 th time they agreed to replace it) I don't know if it will be the answer, but in the meantime I just wanted to say that my Festool dealer, who also sells Mafell says he's had no end of problems with the new Mafell as there is no real guide system for the blades. He still recommends and sells the Trion (- he was inferring I shouldn't have bought the Carvex as I already had a trion , but it's the circle cutting jig that appealed to me, though so far it has never worked. I still cut circles with an old Bosch jigsaw.)
I'm looking forward to seeing further tests.
Richard

 

[JGVilla]

You can see the pendulum stroke set to 0 on the Carvex at 0:05 in the video and set to maximum on the Mafell. Not exactly a fair comparison. The Carvex has a higher oscillation per minute rate (3800 vs. 3000 on the Mafell), which would lead one to believe it would cut faster under the same conditions and with the same blade.

The blade will get very hot if the carbide jaws are set too tight on the blade. You can see a black line on the back of the blade almost instantly in the video once the cut starts which would indicate that it's not set properly. It got so hot that the blade was able to bend. You can see it red hot at the end of the cut where it makes contact with the jaws.

I think the person doing the tests needs to better understand how to properly operate the tools in order to conduct an unbiased and fair test.

Just my  [2cents]

Shane,

You might very well be right.
However we were amazed what happened during our first test(s).
Especially while the 4 others passed without much problems.

Coming Saturday we will do the test again.
We will make sure to use the same blades (this time Festool S145/4) on all machines,
and before doing the test run we'll make try-out runs to make sure all the machines are properly set as you suggests.
Also coming Saturday we hope to have 2 Carvex 420 machines, to make sure the first machine was not a one-off monday morning offspring.

Just for the record: I'm a big fan of Festool and have a load of Festool equipment.
So are the others testers. We just like to make an unbiased record of the abilities of the present day top-end machines.
However, keep in mind that we are machine-users not laboratory testers.
What happens to us can happen to anyone.

I keep you posted here about the on-going tests.
If you have any specific tests or conditions, please let me know.
We will see if we can oblige, keeping in mind that all 5 machines should be equally treated.

-Jan-

 

[Alan m]

im not sure about bias etc but maybe next time you could turn the saw the other way so we can see the settings

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Jan,

Here's the video for Festool's recommended blade guide setting.

 

[jmbfestool]

You can see the pendulum stroke set to 0 on the Carvex at 0:05 in the video and set to maximum on the Mafell. Not exactly a fair comparison. The Carvex has a higher oscillation per minute rate (3800 vs. 3000 on the Mafell), which would lead one to believe it would cut faster under the same conditions and with the same blade.

The blade will get very hot if the carbide jaws are set too tight on the blade. You can see a black line on the back of the blade almost instantly in the video once the cut starts which would indicate that it's not set properly. It got so hot that the blade was able to bend. You can see it red hot at the end of the cut where it makes contact with the jaws.

I think the person doing the tests needs to better understand how to properly operate the tools in order to conduct an unbiased and fair test.

Just my  [2cents]

Shane,

You might very well be right.
However we were amazed what happened during our first test(s).
Especially while the 4 others passed without much problems.

Coming Saturday we will do the test again.
We will make sure to use the same blades (this time Festool S145/4) on all machines,
and before doing the test run we'll make try-out runs to make sure all the machines are properly set as you suggests.
Also coming Saturday we hope to have 2 Carvex 420 machines, to make sure the first machine was not a one-off monday morning offspring.

Just for the record: I'm a big fan of Festool and have a load of Festool equipment.
So are the others testers. We just like to make an unbiased record of the abilities of the present day top-end machines.
However, keep in mind that we are machine-users not laboratory testers.
What happens to us can happen to anyone.

I keep you posted here about the on-going tests.
If you have any specific tests or conditions, please let me know.
We will see if we can oblige, keeping in mind that all 5 machines should be equally treated.

-Jan-

I have a few requests please. Which I know already have been noted but just want to make sure these are the main important bits which need to be shown in the next video to keep every one happy.

1. Show settings on BOTH jigsaws (pendulum and speed settings) to keep every one happy and so people cant come up with excuses

2. Show us that you have not tightened the Carvex 420 blade clamps to tight or to loose so again no one can make any excuses for how it performed in the video

The Mafell has a lower shaft than the Carvex which means if the Mafell with the same blade only JUST cuts through a thick piece of timber the Carvex will NOT.   So the carvex would require a longer blade.
3. So my request would be could you please make sure BOTH jigsaws when blade fully retracted in the UP position the blade is still sticking below the timber even if its just one 1mm and show this in the video please .

4. Show us the cut results of both jigsaws quality AND how square the cut it leaves.

Thank you