Carvex 420 first impressions

[Rembo72]

The Carvex is versatile, this is why we can compare it to the mafell but they are definitely not made for the same things...
the jigsaws which is closest of the Mafell is orange not green... if not, why is there two product ?

Not sure there if I agre, I assume with orange you mean the Protool JSP? Isn't that just the old Festool Trion? Added some rubber to the housing and changed the color , that's it. I thinks the Mafell P1cc and Carvex 420 are made for the same versatile jobs, however there could be differences within that broad variety of fast they are capable for.

Both saws are positioned high end of the market and should be able to deliver good quality everywhere.

But, I believe they said they were including a Protool and Makita jigsaw also.

Shane, you're right there, both are included as well.

 

[neth27]

I want to see the outcome of the Bosch 140, which i have  [big grin]

John...

 

[Rembo72]

Bosch GST 140 is included so with a little more patience... you'll know

 

[Laminator]

To  me heavy duty means it can do its job and do it continuously (daily) for months or years without wearing out.  Light duty stuff will hold up for most weekend warriors who don't put a lot of hours of use on a tool.

I sure want to leave my trion in my shop and put a carvex in my van, but I must admit I'm still very skeptical.  Hopefully the test will be revealing because I really don't want to go the bosch rout and the mafell without a light is out of the question for what I use a jigsaw for.

 

[Michael1960]

Will there be a Festool representative present at the next test day?

 

[Rembo72]

Will there be a Festool representative present at the next test day?

No, the test is facilitated by a Mafell dealer, he is attending but not taking part of the test in whatever way. Festool was invited to come and attend the test and overview in the same way the Mafell dealer does but that offer was not accepted.

 

[RC]

Any news on take two?

 

[Rembo72]

Yes, tests are done and review is being written now, will be released as soon as the video is ready. With instructions from festool new Carvex performed better but still show issues in thicker pieces of wood. We're still talking to festool to see if we can fin out what the reason behind the issues i.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Just an observation... All of the reviews on that site have been in favor of Mafell products and there are numerous "unbiased" reviews of Mafell vs. Festool on a website that does not sell Festool products but does sell Mafell.  [blink]

There's an updated post about the Mafell vs. Carvex and it knocks the Carvex for falling over with the angle base at 45 degrees and the circle cutter not being rigid enough. These "reviews" are anything but "unbiased". There's a very definitive agenda in play.

 

[jonathan-m]

For what it's worth, these tests look on the up and up.
It might not be an all-encompassing perfect test but it seems to me they're going out of their way to give the carvex an honest chance by firstly coming here to the forum and secondly by contacting Festool Netherlands and involving them in the test.

I for one am very interested in these premium tool head to head tests and hope this thread doesn't derail and stays objective. As should anyone who values quality tools for that matter.

 

[jmbfestool]

Just an observation... All of the reviews on that site have been in favor of Mafell products and there are numerous "unbiased" reviews of Mafell vs. Festool on a website that does not sell Festool products but does sell Mafell.  [blink]

There's an updated post about the Mafell vs. Carvex and it knocks the Carvex for falling over with the angle base at 45 degrees and the circle cutter not being rigid enough. These "reviews" are anything but "unbiased". There's a very definitive agenda in play.

I like the tests and maybe they can be biased BUT I can make up my own mind from the results. 

Example:  I know the first video they did with the bent jigsaw was a unfair test as the blade wasnt long enough for the carvex that was blatantly obvious hence why the carvex struggled!

The problem I have with festool they brought out a product which was clearly not very good and not long after brought out a new model but having never contacted any one who owns a carvex, asking for them to return the carvex to festool to be checked out to see if the carvex is working to the high standard festool strives to!  and if not repair it or replace it with the new design.

Instead festool just keep saying some older models with the old guide system are still fine but hey!!! we will stop making them and change the blade guide system any way.  No no its not because the ''older'' model isnt very good we just fancied changing the guide system no reason.

If it wasnt for places like FOG ALOT of people would not of known of the newer model!  and so festool would and properly still have now people (people who dont use the internet much) who just think the  ''old'' carvex is simply not very good and will just live with it

because not much they can do  cus like me I just thought it was just simply a poor jigsaw  but unlike woodguy etc they kept sending them back I thought how can they fix it its how it is its how the guide system is so just lived with it as an unhappy customer!

Any way wa I am getting at Festool kinda deserve this.  These videos will put people off who see them for sure or at least make them think before buying  a carvex.   

IF this new 420 lives up the festool standard then it needs to earn it! It needs to earn peoples trust again! It should have festool removed from it untill it can prove to us again that it can have the Festool logo on it.

JMB

JMB

 

[woodguy7]

I too like the test but I hope the testers comment on the Mafells shortcomings as well like the fact there is no light on it & the extortionate price of the blades.  Don't just focus on things you know the Mafell will do better at.

I was promised a new 420 on the 1st.  Well I had to make a lot of calls today to more than 1 Person to get some sort of an answer.  Eventually they agreed to get one sent out direct from TTS this week.  I must say, I'm not happy at having to do so much chasing to get there balls up resolved.  They should now be jumping through hoops to make things right.  In the past I have had good service from TTS but everything to do with this Carvex has been a disaster.

I will certainly keep everyone updated, good or bad !

 

[neth27]

Do you need a light on a jigsaw? i think its a waste of time (i have one on my Bosch)  You dont need them on a hand-saw or a circular saw  [big grin]

John.....

 

[Alan m]

i have on several ocasions wished for a light on my trion. there always seems to be an area of shadow where i find it hard to follow the line

 

[ART at WORK]

Do you need a light on a jigsaw? i think its a waste of time (i have one on my Bosch)  You dont need them on a hand-saw or a circular saw  [big grin]

John.....

I need a light on a jigsaw because I m following curves or cutting in to tight corners.

With my hand saw or circular saw I am just cutting in a straight line. So I set my measurement and away I go.
But for cutting accurate concave or convex or zigzag forms its nice to be able to see the line or more often the cut I have made with a knife to reduce the break out in the ply.

With a hand saw you can see the line where as a jigsaw has a lot of material in the way of the blade blocking out the light.

Different strokes for different folks.

 

[Rian]

@neth27 : I can imagine working underneath the kitchen sink, trying to make a cut in “the dark”. In such places/instances a light on a jigsaw could be helpful (it might even be an idea to put a light on a circular saw ;-) ). But that’s all in the review, and it’s coming online soon (final touches)..

@jmbfestool : blatantly obvious? unfair test? They all used the same blades, etc.. Is it just because the PS420 didn’t get the job done? The Bosch GST140, Makita 4351, Protool JSP120, Festool PS300 Trion and the Mafell P1cc all DID get the job done! So why is that an unfair test?? 
I'm glad that you can make up your own mind from the results, that’s the whole point of it all. The first video was just to demonstrate the big differences we encountered, it was intended as a teaser.
If you wait for the full English review, you will see all the test results/scores so you can make up your own mind. We will be putting video online to show you all how we did the tests (just to make sure there are no misunderstandings).

Maybe if Shane Holland said “they have a hidden agenda” or “their not unbiased” just one more time, maybe that would distract people form the fact that the PS420 just isn’t as good as you would expect from festool..

And just to get is all pretty straightened out: “that site” was selling Festool for quite some years up until Festool themselves did not allow it any more. “That site” is doing its best to sell top end tools to those who appreciate high quality wood working tools. Festool definitely belongs in that category. We all do like most of the tools Festool produces – and that is in essence why we are keen on having real quality tools delivered to the market by Festool. We would not like to settle for less. Yes we are critical. Yes, we do own quite some Festool tools. And yes, we are happy with them. So, we hope Festool keeps producing nice high end top quality woodworking tools. And that is why we are so critical about the PS420.

We are re-writing the whole test in English especially for you guys. There is absolutely no stimulus to write it in English, other than giving you guys the opportunity so see how the products relate to each other.. It’s not like “that site” sells products to you guys in the US.. So I don’t see the point in hammering on the fact “that site” sells mafell (because you all aren’t going to buy anything from “that site”, so were/what is this hidden agenda???).
 
My advice would be to wait for the test results, and make up your own mind. 

 

[jmbfestool]

@neth27 : I can imagine working underneath the kitchen sink, trying to make a cut in “the dark”. In such places/instances a light on a jigsaw could be helpful (it might even be an idea to put a light on a circular saw ;-) ). But that’s all in the review, and it’s coming online soon (final touches)..

@jmbfestool : blatantly obvious? unfair test? They all used the same blades, etc.. Is it just because the PS420 didn’t get the job done? The Bosch GST140, Makita 4351, Protool JSP120, Festool PS300 Trion and the Mafell P1cc all DID get the job done! So why is that an unfair test?? 
I'm glad that you can make up your own mind from the results, that’s the whole point of it all. The first video was just to demonstrate the big differences we encountered, it was intended as a teaser.
If you wait for the full English review, you will see all the test results/scores so you can make up your own mind. We will be putting video online to show you all how we did the tests (just to make sure there are no misunderstandings).

Maybe if Shane Holland said “they have a hidden agenda” or “their not unbiased” just one more time, maybe that would distract people form the fact that the PS420 just isn’t as good as you would expect from festool..

And just to get is all pretty straightened out: “that site” was selling Festool for quite some years up until Festool themselves did not allow it any more. “That site” is doing its best to sell top end tools to those who appreciate high quality wood working tools. Festool definitely belongs in that category. We all do like most of the tools Festool produces – and that is in essence why we are keen on having real quality tools delivered to the market by Festool. We would not like to settle for less. Yes we are critical. Yes, we do own quite some Festool tools. And yes, we are happy with them. So, we hope Festool keeps producing nice high end top quality woodworking tools. And that is why we are so critical about the PS420.

We are re-writing the whole test in English especially for you guys. There is absolutely no stimulus to write it in English, other than giving you guys the opportunity so see how the products relate to each other.. It’s not like “that site” sells products to you guys in the US.. So I don’t see the point in hammering on the fact “that site” sells mafell (because you all aren’t going to buy anything from “that site”, so were/what is this hidden agenda???).
 
My advice would be to wait for the test results, and make up your own mind. 

Dude for a jigsaw to work correctly it needs the correct blade for the jigsaw some jigsaws sit higher than others! Mafell sits very low so can have a shorter blade!

So using the same blade does not always make it a fair test a fair test would be that you use a blade that ALL JIGSAWS can use so the blade  should ALWAYS  come past the work piece  when fully retracted up. 

The carvex clearly didnt come past the work piece.  Saying that im not doubting the fact the jigsaws which might also needed a longer blade still performed with a short blade BUT I wanna see a test with proper use of a tool and having a blade to short for the work piece is NOT proper use of a tool.

So I would suggest like I requested before that to make sure the blade is long enough that ALL jigsaws using the blade in question would be sticking past the material when full retracted.

 

[neth27]

Well all i can say, in 25 years as working as a joiner i have not once thought oh i wish this jigsaw had a light on it.. If you cant see a pencil line the room is to dark and any power tool use would be dangerous or you need glasses......

 

[jonathan-m]

Rian, I'd like to thank you guys for all the time and effort you're spending performing these tests. I, along with many others are really looking forward to it. I can only imagine how hard and time consuming doing all this is.
As a person suffering from asthma I'm particularly interested in the dust collection of the devices. I really hope that was properly tested as well. Keep up the good work.

 

[jmbfestool]

Well all i can say, in 25 years as working as a joiner i have not once thought oh i wish this jigsaw had a light on it.. If you cant see a pencil line the room is to dark and any power tool use would be dangerous or you need glasses......

It is handy sometimes dude!  but some times the strobe light on the carvex actually gets in the way and makes it more difficult to see.

JMB