Carvex 420 first impressions

[woodguy7]

Well I very much look forward to the new results.  Don't think everyone on here is a fan boy.  If a particular tool is a dog I will say it is a dog, & I have done with the Carvex.  some of my more recent additions like the OF 2200 set, Domino DF 700 set & even the sys light I got 2 days ago are some of the best tools I have ever used, Period !

I don't think Festool has made a particularly good job with any of their jigsaws, including the Trion & perhaps they should get a clean sheet of paper & start again !

To stop all the comments about bias get the full videos up for everyone to see.  If it turns out the Mafell is the best then I applaud them for doing a better job !

Woodguy.

 

[Rian]

@jmbfestool : Clearly you're not getting the point I'm making. 5 out of 6 Jigsaws didn't need a longer blade.. Only the PS420.. That's all I'm saying.
If you want to do a fair test, all machines should work with the same blades.. That's just logical. If we did not cut with the same type of blade I can hear the complaints already: "Thats not a fair test, they were using different blades! No wonder the one did a poor job, it had the wrong blade. . blablabla."
If the PS420 needs a longer blade for every cut than all the competitors, that's alright, except they should put it in the manual..
something like : "If you want to cut a piece 5cm thick, be sure to buy a blade that is made to cut at least 7cm pieces. Otherwise this machine will not be able to make the cut."
5 out of 6 machines did not have the problem, so I don't think it's the blade that's causing it... Just saying..

 

[tbellemare]

I don't own a Carvex and never have...

'Just as a point of interest, a Festool Trion jigsaw can cut out a triple-blind corner of a piece of timber (like a 2x2 corner out of a 4x4) if handled properly. It isn't all that difficult. What that means is that it can cut to full depth of the blade just fine if the operator has any real desire to make it work.

This is just one example of why I continue to think that the only fair comparison of tools is when the tool's manufacturer chooses the operator and the test conditions are known ahead of time. Of course, I'm talking about publicly held, head-to-head comparisons as well; as I stated earlier - Formula One style.

Tom

 

[nehardwoodfloors]

Well all i can say, in 25 years as working as a joiner i have not once thought oh i wish this jigsaw had a light on it.. If you cant see a pencil line the room is to dark and any power tool use would be dangerous or you need glasses......

Its not that you cant do the work at hand without a light. Its just the work at hand will come out better if you have a light.

 

[Brice Burrell]

@jmbfestool : Clearly you're not getting the point I'm making. 5 out of 6 Jigsaws didn't need a longer blade.. Only the PS420.. That's all I'm saying.
If you want to do a fair test, all machines should work with the same blades.. That's just logical........

I understand the logic behind using the same blade as the basis of being fair, however, I'm not sure I agree.  On occasion you can run into problems with incidental setups like the case with the blade in the PS420. 

Now for the next sentence in the post reads:

.....If we did not cut with the same type of blade I can hear the complaints already: "Thats not a fair test, they were using different blades! No wonder the one did a poor job, it had the wrong blade. . blablabla."......

Well, in the quest to be fair in using the same blades someone unfairly used the wrong blade for the PS420.  If one wanted to be perfectly fair the optimal/correct setup would be used for each saw for the given task.  It should be noted what each setup is and if an unusual amount of effort was needed to achieve any given "optimal/correct" setup.

Honestly, it's hard to be completely "fair" when comparing tools, that's why I've never done it in any of the reviews I've done.       

   

 

[GhostFist]

I'm interested in this test but can't help but think of how much performance the majority of woodworkers demand out of a jigsaw. It's an interesting tool as I don't think I've used one that I haven't muttered curses at. The my trion is the best one I've used to date but it has it's annoyances as has been documented on this forum. Say for instance the mafell "wins". The testing. It's restricted availability in North America and pricing above even festool will make it difficult for mafell to compete in the north American market, protool will be a no contest altogether as it's NAINA. None the less its always interesting to see the baddest machine out there

 

[Laminator]

I never thought one time that I needed a light on a jigsaw in about 25 years of use.  The (older) bosch saws are wide open around the blade so it pretty easy to follow a line even with very modest room lighting.   Then comes the trion which has the blade hidden in a cave of sorts which I immediately found unusable without a light, so I put one on it.  

I will suffer some shortcomings to have dust collection and any jigsaw without effective dust collection is out of the contest even if it was free! (I'll take it but will not use it)  

Really looking forward to the test results!

Question; How many folks use a jigsaw to cut big beams and timbers?  I've just never saw one used for that application in my neck of the woods.

 

[RC]

I never work with anything thicker than 3" and rarely use a jigsaw on other than boards to cut shapes.

I guess what I expect from a good jigsaw is near scrollsaw capability to cut tight curved figures in 1" thick hardwood boards etc. with the thin scrolling blade.

The old Makita I had did a suprisingly good job at it with zero adjustment involved, but alas I was lured to buy a PSC400 by my other Festools quality and sold off my trusty Makita before I tried the Carvex in a real application and found out the hard way that it couldn't do half of what my old one could.

Now waiting for the results to come in to see if I should get a 420, Mafell, another Makita or maybe the Bosch 140 to replace my Carvex with something that actually works.

 

[woodguy7]

Reiska, put it back for a swap with the 420.  Make enough noise, they won't refuse.  They know its a dog !

 

[hockey_magnet]

[/quote]

Well, in the quest to be fair in using the same blades someone unfairly used the wrong blade for the PS420.  If one wanted to be perfectly fair the optimal/correct setup would be used for each saw for the given task.  It should be noted what each setup is and if an unusual amount of effort was needed to achieve any given "optimal/correct" setup.

Honestly, it's hard to be completely "fair" when comparing tools, that's why I've never done it in any of the reviews I've done.       

     
[/quote]

You hit it exactly right. I don't care if Festool (or any other brand) requires a different blade because that's what I would use if I bought that saw. Set up each saw to do the best job it's capable of, period. Then compare the results and  describe the advantages/disadvantages of setting the tool up and using it. That's the only comparison I'm interested in, otherwise, it's all garbage.

Chris

 

[Michael1960]

A few months ago I attempted to trim a solid door with my Festool PSC400.  The blade was a fraction too short for the task and the machine struggled.  I purchased and installed a longer blade and continued the job.  The remaining cut was effortless - a very quick, clean cut.
A jigsaw blade must completely clear the timber being cut - any valid test would ensure this happens.

 

[JimB1]

Did I miss the new test? I thought they did it last weekend...

Anyway I agree with the folks that said using a jigsaw on thick hardwood is something I don't think I've ever done. Usually 3/4" - 1/4" ply is all I use it for. Power to cut though 12/4 mahogany in a jig saw just isn't a concern to me. I have a bandsaw for that

I think I'd be more interested in smooth, tight cuts in ply with good visibility and dust control then power. Weight of the tool would be something that would also be of concern. I'm fairly happy with my Dewalt jigsaw but dust is an issue and I often think a light would be useful. Usually I try to position myself so that my shadow doesn't fall along my cutline but sometimes you can't help it, especially in circle cuts where you have to move around the piece a bit.

Jim

 

[green fever]

As a point of interest does anyone on here other than the guys carrying out the tests have access to the festool 420 and the maffell in question so that this can be put to bed ? and why the teaser ? i think this debate will go on for some time to come maffell v festool i only say these two because of the price bracket  they are in, do you guys in Holland use maffell on a daily basis? those of you that may own one that is as i would like to see a prolonged useage of all the saws in question in all types of conditions, not just on a bench type test , then of to bed zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz . or the nearest maffell dealer, who knows, but here's looking forward to the end results, AND THE WINNER IS ?

 

[Rian]

MODERATE NOTE: THESE TESTS WERE SPONSORED BY AND ADMINISTERED BY A MAFELL DEALER IN THE NETHERLANDS

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Look at all the orange shirts from Gereedschappro on the set.

Interesting since Remco posted this video showing no issues at all while at Festool Netherlands. Seemed to work just fine.



Rian, you post on their Facebook page as if you know nothing about the tests when you are a participant.

[attachimg=#]

To set the record straight, is there anyone with a Carvex 420 who can replicate the test on their own and post their results here, please? Someone not associated with a Mafell dealer or Festool.

 

[Laminator]

This wasn't the big comparison we've been waiting for is it?

 

[ScotF]

To set the record straight, is there anyone with a Carvex 420 who can replicate the test on their own and post their results here, please? Someone not associated with a Mafell dealer or Festool.
[/quote]

Shane -- I would gladly volunteer to do a test if you could send me a Carvex 420 to try...and I am not associated with any tool company!  [tongue]

Scot

 

[Nigel]

Seems to me the blade guides are set too tight to create that amount of heat,especially seeing as sparks are generated.

 

[woodguy7]

I was trying to stay open minded about the tests but now i don't trust them at all.  I was looking for a showdown between 5 jigsaws.  To me it looks like mafell has gotten some guys together to do a crappy test to knock festool.  Like many others here have said, how often do you cut wood that thick with a jigsaw ?  I have been cutting wood for 25 years & not once have i needed to cut wood like that with a jigsaw.  Shane, i know you are trying to be fair but i think now might be the time to kick these videos off.

I don't have my 420 yet, should be any day now & i did contemplate selling it for the Mafell.  Don't think i will bother now.  A top end jigsaw with no light, in this day & age, Please !!!

 

[Jaybolishes]

I think Nigel has it right, there's no way the guide was set correctly to generate that much heat.  Is it possible the Allen bolt was tightened way too tight?  If you think not, then I think you may need to be wearing orange as well.  Can someone who owns a 420 please just cut through a rediculously thick piece of wood and show if this test is a bunch of crap! If not please send me one and I'll gladly do it myself. [big grin] Like many have already stated, who wants a jigsaw to cut through wood that thick? Seems to me cutting through ridiculously thick wood was the only way to get the blade to heat up enough to get the result they were looking for.   They make portable bandsaws for a reason if you find you do need to cut many many curves in  timbers.  My 16" beam saw cuts timbers very well and faster than any jigsaw if I'm  cutting straight lines.  Shane I think you can rest easy, we are not buying it. Can festool send a 420 to me now for sticking up for them haha jk.

Rian if it all comes out I am wrong and others find the same thing as in your tests, my deepest apologies.