Carvex and CMS-PS module first impressions
- Thread starter RC
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They sell those shelving systems here under the Elfa brand and I have some in the walk-in closets.
I was thinking about building a frame with dadoes at suitable width and heights to slide the different modules lenghtwise under the stairs since the space is 900mm deep and make cubbies on the floor level to store the CMS-GE base module and my Bosch mitre saw on its plywood rollerboard.
If space permits I'm hoping to make a few 900mm deep drawers or shelves there too to store the large random bits.
I'll need to find some quality time with Sketchup and a tape measure ;-)
I was thinking about building a frame with dadoes at suitable width and heights to slide the different modules lenghtwise under the stairs since the space is 900mm deep and make cubbies on the floor level to store the CMS-GE base module and my Bosch mitre saw on its plywood rollerboard.
If space permits I'm hoping to make a few 900mm deep drawers or shelves there too to store the large random bits.
I'll need to find some quality time with Sketchup and a tape measure ;-)
Oh, jolly great - now that I reread the manual of the CMS-PS (which is btw. in a sealed plastic bag so one cannot really ask it to be opened at the store) to find out in the fine print that the module is not even supposed to be compatible with ANY OF THE BATTERY OPERATED CARVEX MODELS and happily this not mentioned in any reasonable way on any of the Festool websites. [mad] [censored]
For example the UK site states:
--- Snip ---
Description:
• for installing the PS 200, PS 300, PSB 300, PS 2, PS 1 as a jigsaw module
• PS 400 can be used via adapter table ADT-PS 400
--- Snip ---
From which the casual reader should somehow understand that only the PS400 and the PSB400 are compatible and that neither the PSC400, that I have, nor the PSBC400 models are not compatible with the darn module!?!
No wonder I had all that trouble in using and getting DC connected up with my PSC400 Carvex... Bummer that we don't have a 30 day return policy in Finland [sad]
For example the UK site states:
--- Snip ---
Description:
• for installing the PS 200, PS 300, PSB 300, PS 2, PS 1 as a jigsaw module
• PS 400 can be used via adapter table ADT-PS 400
--- Snip ---
From which the casual reader should somehow understand that only the PS400 and the PSB400 are compatible and that neither the PSC400, that I have, nor the PSBC400 models are not compatible with the darn module!?!
No wonder I had all that trouble in using and getting DC connected up with my PSC400 Carvex... Bummer that we don't have a 30 day return policy in Finland [sad]
Acrobat
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Also I'll try to verify if it is the blade itself twisting with the work piece and denting the zero insert or is it twisting from the saws blade socket - not totally sold on the merits of the Festool blade change mechanism either - it doesn't seem as rugged as my old Makitas one is. At least the Makita will release the blade every time without fail since the lever is more solidly attached to the blade socket whereas the Carves has this push rod in the barrel grip that's supposed to make contact with a small protrusion on the side of the blade socket to twist it open and it will hit thin air if the blade isn't fully retracted into the saw, which it isn't most of the time when I turn the motor off, so you need to manually push the blade in before you can eject it. The Festool showroom one had the release rod somehow bent so badly that it didn't make contact with the blade socket at all ergo you could not eject a blade without pressing the rod against the socket when sliding the release. Of course those showroom tools had all gotten a serious beating so mine will probably never get into that sort of condition with the amount of use it will see.
Reiska, That was a great write up and excellent photos, really shows exactly what's going on and how to fit all etc.
Have you had a play with any of the new Carvex blades or even the trion blades?
I am thinking of getting the exactly same CMS/carvex set up, as I have ordered a cordless carvex and am picking up a second hand cms table. I probably wouldn't be using the jigsaw much in the cms, so it's handier for me to go cordless with that. A bummer its not specifically made to go in a cms module, but from your attempts it appears very close and achievable, so in the times I need it there I'll give it a go. Would love to have it working as a poor mans bandsaw as well.
Next, how long did the battery last?
From what I've read here, there seems to be two distinct camps regarding peoples experiences with the carvex. Old 400 versions not the best, new 420s much improved with alot saying they are happy with them but some seem to have major issues even with the new version 420's. Most seem to indicate the blades make the biggest difference, so I assume getting and using the latest carvex blades are the way to go.
I'm a tad nervous in getting the carvex, but at least the 30day right of return is applicable here in middle earth, so it may be upgraded to the more expensive corded version if necessary.
Reiska, That was a great write up and excellent photos, really shows exactly what's going on and how to fit all etc.
Have you had a play with any of the new Carvex blades or even the trion blades?
I am thinking of getting the exactly same CMS/carvex set up, as I have ordered a cordless carvex and am picking up a second hand cms table. I probably wouldn't be using the jigsaw much in the cms, so it's handier for me to go cordless with that. A bummer its not specifically made to go in a cms module, but from your attempts it appears very close and achievable, so in the times I need it there I'll give it a go. Would love to have it working as a poor mans bandsaw as well.
Next, how long did the battery last?
From what I've read here, there seems to be two distinct camps regarding peoples experiences with the carvex. Old 400 versions not the best, new 420s much improved with alot saying they are happy with them but some seem to have major issues even with the new version 420's. Most seem to indicate the blades make the biggest difference, so I assume getting and using the latest carvex blades are the way to go.
I'm a tad nervous in getting the carvex, but at least the 30day right of return is applicable here in middle earth, so it may be upgraded to the more expensive corded version if necessary.
Hello Acrobat,
I actually gave up with the PSC400 I had after a couple of fruitless back & forth to TTS Repair Service and a week of light treatment each time and still the blade jumping out of the guide every time I tried to cut tight curves.
Ended up ebaying the PSC400 and instead I've now purchased a corded barrel grip PS420, after the generally positive feedback its gotten on the forum, to stick into my CMS module.
Haven't had a chance to try it out yet but will probably do an update to this write-up once the snow melts from my back yard and I can get my "workshop" back up and running for the summer.
As you can see from my write-up above, you can technically attach the battery models to the CMS-PS insert and use the jigsaw without dust collection.
Its just quite dodgy with the power switch under the table, no emergency off switch and shortish battery life of about 15min / battery (2.6Ah/15V).
The battery model has enough runtime for the odd cut here and there in a non-trivial place, but I would not try to use one for any time consuming tasks or at least be prepared with min. three batteries to swap in and out & recharge every few minutes. I only had one battery for the jigsaw and I don't own other C/T-type Festools with batteries so working a bit less than it takes to recharge the battery leads to frustration really quickly.
I've got a few of the thicker (or actually non-tapered front-to-back) Carvex labelled blades and I did try them on the PSC400 before I gave up. They did cut better and didn't wander/jump out as frequently, but that just isn't good enough for me since mostly I use the thinnest possible 'scrolling' blade for cutting shapes into hardwood. Can't use the thick 'carvex' blades for that.
Now that I've read a bit more about how you are supposed to use a band saw/scroll saw (i.e. feel the natural twist of the blade and adjust the freehand feed direction to the band saws characteristics) I guess one could do something similar with the CMS-PS mounted Carvex or Trion, but clearly re-sawing against a fence and expecting table saw like precision won't work because the jigsaw blade has nothing to support its tip from twisting vs. band/scroll saw blade is guided from both ends so its not so prone to flex from the pressure of the wood trapped between the blade and the fence.
I actually gave up with the PSC400 I had after a couple of fruitless back & forth to TTS Repair Service and a week of light treatment each time and still the blade jumping out of the guide every time I tried to cut tight curves.
Ended up ebaying the PSC400 and instead I've now purchased a corded barrel grip PS420, after the generally positive feedback its gotten on the forum, to stick into my CMS module.
Haven't had a chance to try it out yet but will probably do an update to this write-up once the snow melts from my back yard and I can get my "workshop" back up and running for the summer.
As you can see from my write-up above, you can technically attach the battery models to the CMS-PS insert and use the jigsaw without dust collection.
Its just quite dodgy with the power switch under the table, no emergency off switch and shortish battery life of about 15min / battery (2.6Ah/15V).
The battery model has enough runtime for the odd cut here and there in a non-trivial place, but I would not try to use one for any time consuming tasks or at least be prepared with min. three batteries to swap in and out & recharge every few minutes. I only had one battery for the jigsaw and I don't own other C/T-type Festools with batteries so working a bit less than it takes to recharge the battery leads to frustration really quickly.
I've got a few of the thicker (or actually non-tapered front-to-back) Carvex labelled blades and I did try them on the PSC400 before I gave up. They did cut better and didn't wander/jump out as frequently, but that just isn't good enough for me since mostly I use the thinnest possible 'scrolling' blade for cutting shapes into hardwood. Can't use the thick 'carvex' blades for that.
Now that I've read a bit more about how you are supposed to use a band saw/scroll saw (i.e. feel the natural twist of the blade and adjust the freehand feed direction to the band saws characteristics) I guess one could do something similar with the CMS-PS mounted Carvex or Trion, but clearly re-sawing against a fence and expecting table saw like precision won't work because the jigsaw blade has nothing to support its tip from twisting vs. band/scroll saw blade is guided from both ends so its not so prone to flex from the pressure of the wood trapped between the blade and the fence.
Acrobat
Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2008
- Messages
- 471
Hi Reiska,
I have an old Triton router table I still use quite a bit, and it came with an insertable jigsaw module, which has an overhead stabiliser attachment that fits onto the side of the table through a hole, .and when fitted, it tries to eliminate the blade wander. I haven't used it in years and forgot all about it, and am now curious to see what happens when placing a festool jigsaw in it. (Not sure how the whole assembly would fit in a festool cms table though- their plate is a different size altogether).
Heres what Triton came up with for their Router tables jigsaw insert, something that festool may look at and see if they can improve on perhaps.
http://www.tritontools.com/Product/330010. A very inexpensive attachment, even has a hose for dust extraction.
Note it uses little blocks of Hardwood either side of the blade, which are adjustable to fit blade thickness to help prevent wander. Not sure how effective they are from memory but since I have it I'll give it a go. It might just do the job for those few times I need to put a jigsaw in a table and it might be a down and dirty bandsaw
As for the battery running out quickly thats surprises me it went down after 15 mins, but I do have other festools and a charger so for me not a major problem to swap and have one on charge as well.
If I get time I'll test it all out and post pics and report on it here
I have an old Triton router table I still use quite a bit, and it came with an insertable jigsaw module, which has an overhead stabiliser attachment that fits onto the side of the table through a hole, .and when fitted, it tries to eliminate the blade wander. I haven't used it in years and forgot all about it, and am now curious to see what happens when placing a festool jigsaw in it. (Not sure how the whole assembly would fit in a festool cms table though- their plate is a different size altogether).
Heres what Triton came up with for their Router tables jigsaw insert, something that festool may look at and see if they can improve on perhaps.
http://www.tritontools.com/Product/330010. A very inexpensive attachment, even has a hose for dust extraction.
Note it uses little blocks of Hardwood either side of the blade, which are adjustable to fit blade thickness to help prevent wander. Not sure how effective they are from memory but since I have it I'll give it a go. It might just do the job for those few times I need to put a jigsaw in a table and it might be a down and dirty bandsaw
As for the battery running out quickly thats surprises me it went down after 15 mins, but I do have other festools and a charger so for me not a major problem to swap and have one on charge as well.
If I get time I'll test it all out and post pics and report on it here
Acrobat
Member
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2008
- Messages
- 471
Well, got the Carvex 420 barrel grip model yesterday, came as a "Basic" kit, i.e no battery or charger, so a much cheaper package as I already have a few batteries and a charger from my drills. First off, a couple of things...
Barrel grip is quite large and boy its a heavy tool, and I am finding the on/off switches hard to reach whilst holding it. I have not got big hands so think someone with large hands it would suit better. I find I have to use my other hand or remove my hand and reposition it to find the switch to turn it on/off. I feel it feels unsafe doing this. I would like it to have trigger switch preferably, so may end up changing it over to the standard shape jigsaw and try that.
In reading the manual that comes with it if one can call it that, it states to tighten the blade so there is just a slight bit of play either side of blade. This seems a bit of guess work and I found I tightened it up to what I thought was correct only to find the blade travels back and forth in the v guide. Seems alot of play there? So I ended up pushing the blade back hard against the stop and adjusting the guide width to the narrow width then letting the blade flop forward. Seems to work, but I don't get why the play in the first place. I guess its the pendulum motion so it must require that sloppyness movement? At least the blade didn't travel sideways and kept in the v guide ok. Not much marking on sides of blade so it must be fitted ok.
Tested out a few cuts in 17mm ply and 18mm mdf, seems fine to me, but I did notice halfway along a cut (about 300mm (-12 inches) it suddenly slowed and felt like it was jamming, it appeared the dust extraction wasn't doing much, and some chips were getting in the path of the cut. Once physically blown away it seemed to go fine again. I did set the vac on full and on manual start but still heaps of chips.
I got the circle cutter attachment and foot on special as well, so thought I'd try it out.
Tried the foot buy itself on a guide rail. Bit of a sloppy fit and there is no adjustment possible so had to push it hard against rail else it wandered a mm or so. Think I will put some tape inside the plastic foot to get a tighter fit if I use it with rail. Apart from that it did do a nice straight cut in the ply. No wandering off. Cuts pretty well 90.
Next I tried the circle cutter. So wanted to try this out.
What a great gizmoy! I clamped down a board, drilled the 4mm centre hole and drew the circle. Drilled a larger hole near the initial cut for blade to fit, then attached it to the jigsaw and proceeded to cut in the recommended anti-clockwise direction. Sweet as your nanna. I'm impressed, but the size of the hole is different to the size I was expecting. Unless I am doing something wrong, there were no detailed instructions on its use, so I may have set it up wrong. I'll make a few attempts and see. Maybe its something to factor in, blade width I'm guessing or simply didn't set the tape size right.
Next I just went crazy and wandered with the jigsaw all through some boards seeing how tight or straight I could do freehand, chip out was minimal on top once I installed the chip splinter guard, none underneath, . Of course I didn't read the manual (duh) and so inserted it and pushed it in a bit, turned the jigsaw on then pushed it all the way in flush with shoefront straight away. Manual states to leave it 3mm forward so one can use it again and re fit it for extended use. Never mind, it's on and works a.o.k, and I assume (but cannot find on website any reference to spare splinterguards) one can get spares of that cheaply enough.
Battery ran out half way through a cut, but I had played a bit with it a bit, so I'm hoping it has enough juice to do most DIY and general reno work I need it to without changing too often, but alot quicker drain that any drill I have, so that's something that took me by surprise, yes even though I read it here beforehand.
Lights are good and I get the upside down - off thing. Lights work fine for me as they are, so I doubt whether I will change their default settings.
Manual is a bit vague on settings in my opinion and I agree with Peter from England there. I've never used a pendulum jigsaw before so no idea what means what and what each setting does or how it effects things.
Tool itself seems quite tough, solid and blade change is sweet. I really like that - my other jigsaw has two screws to hold a blade in - B&D, circa 1756 or something ha ha, so a leap from that for me. The foot changing is easy too. Like that. But unless one changes the foot you can't have it set to any angle other than 90. Seems a shame to have to swap shoes to just do that.
All in all for a first evenings trial, I like it, apart from the hard to reach power switch, I may just be retiring my old faithful B&D jigsaw.
First job to trim some bargeboards up high on a ladder so I'm glad it's a battery model.
Barrel grip is quite large and boy its a heavy tool, and I am finding the on/off switches hard to reach whilst holding it. I have not got big hands so think someone with large hands it would suit better. I find I have to use my other hand or remove my hand and reposition it to find the switch to turn it on/off. I feel it feels unsafe doing this. I would like it to have trigger switch preferably, so may end up changing it over to the standard shape jigsaw and try that.
In reading the manual that comes with it if one can call it that
, it states to tighten the blade so there is just a slight bit of play either side of blade. This seems a bit of guess work and I found I tightened it up to what I thought was correct only to find the blade travels back and forth in the v guide. Seems alot of play there? So I ended up pushing the blade back hard against the stop and adjusting the guide width to the narrow width then letting the blade flop forward. Seems to work, but I don't get why the play in the first place. I guess its the pendulum motion so it must require that sloppyness movement? At least the blade didn't travel sideways and kept in the v guide ok. Not much marking on sides of blade so it must be fitted ok.Tested out a few cuts in 17mm ply and 18mm mdf, seems fine to me, but I did notice halfway along a cut (about 300mm (-12 inches) it suddenly slowed and felt like it was jamming, it appeared the dust extraction wasn't doing much, and some chips were getting in the path of the cut. Once physically blown away it seemed to go fine again. I did set the vac on full and on manual start but still heaps of chips.
I got the circle cutter attachment and foot on special as well, so thought I'd try it out.
Tried the foot buy itself on a guide rail. Bit of a sloppy fit and there is no adjustment possible so had to push it hard against rail else it wandered a mm or so. Think I will put some tape inside the plastic foot to get a tighter fit if I use it with rail. Apart from that it did do a nice straight cut in the ply. No wandering off. Cuts pretty well 90.
Next I tried the circle cutter. So wanted to try this out.
What a great gizmoy! I clamped down a board, drilled the 4mm centre hole and drew the circle. Drilled a larger hole near the initial cut for blade to fit, then attached it to the jigsaw and proceeded to cut in the recommended anti-clockwise direction. Sweet as your nanna. I'm impressed, but the size of the hole is different to the size I was expecting. Unless I am doing something wrong, there were no detailed instructions on its use, so I may have set it up wrong. I'll make a few attempts and see. Maybe its something to factor in, blade width I'm guessing or simply didn't set the tape size right.
Next I just went crazy and wandered with the jigsaw all through some boards seeing how tight or straight I could do freehand, chip out was minimal on top once I installed the chip splinter guard, none underneath, . Of course I didn't read the manual (duh) and so inserted it and pushed it in a bit, turned the jigsaw on then pushed it all the way in flush with shoefront straight away. Manual states to leave it 3mm forward so one can use it again and re fit it for extended use. Never mind, it's on and works a.o.k, and I assume (but cannot find on website any reference to spare splinterguards) one can get spares of that cheaply enough.
Battery ran out half way through a cut, but I had played a bit with it a bit, so I'm hoping it has enough juice to do most DIY and general reno work I need it to without changing too often, but alot quicker drain that any drill I have, so that's something that took me by surprise, yes even though I read it here beforehand.
Lights are good and I get the upside down - off thing. Lights work fine for me as they are, so I doubt whether I will change their default settings.
Manual is a bit vague on settings in my opinion and I agree with Peter from England there. I've never used a pendulum jigsaw before so no idea what means what and what each setting does or how it effects things.
Tool itself seems quite tough, solid and blade change is sweet. I really like that - my other jigsaw has two screws to hold a blade in - B&D, circa 1756 or something ha ha, so a leap from that for me. The foot changing is easy too. Like that. But unless one changes the foot you can't have it set to any angle other than 90. Seems a shame to have to swap shoes to just do that.
All in all for a first evenings trial, I like it, apart from the hard to reach power switch, I may just be retiring my old faithful B&D jigsaw.
First job to trim some bargeboards up high on a ladder so I'm glad it's a battery model.
The body of the handle model is about the same size as the barrel model, but the handle itself is actually quite thin - to the point of not being comfortable in my medium sized hands.
If you like using a handle model jigsaw and have smallish hands you might actually like it and the handle trigger is also 'analog' in the sense that you can control running speed with the amount you depress the button vs. the on/off behavior of the barrel models power buttons.
I find the barrel models power buttons to be a bit too far front for one hand use too, but can't say its a show stopper. I preferred my old Makita's switch positioning and solid on and off positions that a visually distinguishable.
If you like using a handle model jigsaw and have smallish hands you might actually like it and the handle trigger is also 'analog' in the sense that you can control running speed with the amount you depress the button vs. the on/off behavior of the barrel models power buttons.
I find the barrel models power buttons to be a bit too far front for one hand use too, but can't say its a show stopper. I preferred my old Makita's switch positioning and solid on and off positions that a visually distinguishable.
