Carvex Dead

[Steven Owen]

Yup. It was 3.5 years old.

Good tip on the mafell parts. Have to check it out. That increases my confidence in that saw. The amount of people that are getting such short usage out of their carvex's is crazy. Whereas my experience and the testimony has been the boschs last forever.

It’s hard to find tools built like they were 30-years ago.  My Grandpa’s 56 year-old Black and Decker drill from 1961 finally gave up the ghost this year.  I used to call the drill Big Ugly because it clocked in at ten pounds and you smell the moldy oil in that drill.  Canada was still using the Union Jack for a flag and Kennedy was still President when my Grandpa bought that drill.  I would’ve fixed it if I could’ve found any parts for it.

You have to be happy with getting 10-15 years these days.  The Bosch 572 is a great choice for a reliable performer without dropping serious money on the Mafell or another highend Euro brand. 

 

[Gregor]

It’s bad enough that the saw crapped out but if it’s the corded version, then the final coup de grace is the $392 repair estimate. A new Carvex with accessories and Systainer costs $372 and has a 3 year warranty. Why would anyone spend $392 for repairs and a 1 year warranty?

I’d think Festool would simply write you a brief note explaining that the cost of repairs was in excess of the price of a new Carvex.

Definitively this. A repair quote that is nearing NIB list price (or even higher) should contain a note that getting a new one could be more economical.

And as a current Festool customer they would give you a discount on a new Carvex. Take $372 minus the SYS 1 price of $72 yields $300.

Now discount the saw by 15% for your trouble and the cost of customer satisfaction and it’d be yours for $255.

In case it's only the actual tool then the other contents of the systainer could also play into it.

Festool certainly isn’t losing money and more importantly they aren’t losing a customer.

Rule of thumb I was teached for business was: it costs 10 times to get a new customer than what it takes to keep one.
(exceptions for obnoxious ones apply, YMMV)

 

[Holmz]

...

It’s hard to find tools built like they were 30-years ago.  My Grandpa’s 56 year-old Black and Decker drill from 1961 finally gave up the ghost this year.  I used to call the drill Big Ugly because it clocked in at ten pounds and you smell the moldy oil in that drill.  Canada was still using the Union Jack for a flag and Kennedy was still President when my Grandpa bought that drill.  I would’ve fixed it if I could’ve found any parts for it.

You have to be happy with getting 10-15 years these days.  The Bosch 572 is a great choice for a reliable performer without dropping serious money on the Mafell or another highend Euro brand.

If we divide the cost by the years it lasts, then we arrive at a cost/year metric.

The denominator changing by a factor of 10 is more significant than the numerator changing by a factor of 2.

 

[Steven Owen]

...

It’s hard to find tools built like they were 30-years ago.  My Grandpa’s 56 year-old Black and Decker drill from 1961 finally gave up the ghost this year.  I used to call the drill Big Ugly because it clocked in at ten pounds and you smell the moldy oil in that drill.  Canada was still using the Union Jack for a flag and Kennedy was still President when my Grandpa bought that drill.  I would’ve fixed it if I could’ve found any parts for it.

You have to be happy with getting 10-15 years these days.  The Bosch 572 is a great choice for a reliable performer without dropping serious money on the Mafell or another highend Euro brand.

If we divide the cost by the years it lasts, then we arrive at a cost/year metric.

The denominator changing by a factor of 10 is more significant than the numerator changing by a factor of 2.

Sometimes you buy the best possible tool you can afford based on the amount of usage you’re getting.  You budget more for the tools you’re going to use the most and less for tools that get use casually. 

 

[Holmz]

...
Sometimes you buy the best possible tool you can afford based on the amount of usage you’re getting.  You budget more for the tools you’re going to use the most and less for tools that get use casually.

And one does not budget for a tool not working...

My point was similar to the OPs... 3-years for a high priced tool is not good value, (but one cannot extrapolate that all the Carvex only last 3-years.)

An expensive tool, or the less expensive Bosch, both which seem to last longer are a better long term value.

 

[antss]

And one does not budget for a tool not working...

Then you are not figuring your costs properly.

 

[Steven Owen]

...
Sometimes you buy the best possible tool you can afford based on the amount of usage you’re getting.  You budget more for the tools you’re going to use the most and less for tools that get use casually.

And one does not budget for a tool not working...

My point was similar to the OPs... 3-years for a high priced tool is not good value, (but one cannot extrapolate that all the Carvex only last 3-years.)

An expensive tool, or the less expensive Bosch, both which seem to last longer are a better long term value.

There’s no argument against that.  Festool should be offering a 5-year warranty for it tools at the prices they’re being sold at.  It takes most business 5 -7 years to write off the costs of tool depending on their countries tax codes.

Festool comes out the looser on a tool that dies just after 3 years.  It’s someone that’ll not only replace that tool with a Bosch, it’s someone that will buy a Mafell track saw or Mirka sander too if they’ve lost confidence in the brand.

 

[leakyroof]

My Bosch 1582 DVS (the first Bosch tool-less blade change jigsaw with dust collection)
is more than thirty years old.

  I have the non-dust collecting version of the Jigsaw, and yes, it's still going strong since the early 90's when it came out.  I bought a Carvex to supplement the Bosch, but I won't give up the Bosch jigsaw.... [smile]

 

[leakyroof]

Yes.....my questions were concerning the build quality how on earth does every functioning part on this saw wear out in so few years?

Why is it only warrantied for 36 months when a Chinese building company like Hitachi offers a minimum 5 year professional warranty on tools that cost a 1/3 as much. Apparently they dont have more confidence in their german manufacturing than Hitachi has in the Chinese manufacturing.

How does it cost 392 dollars to fix a 350 retail saw? Theyre trying to make more on the parts than they made on the saw the first time.

  As Seth or maybe it was Peter, stated, repair costs on many things can exceed the new, replacement cost of an item.  I've run into this trying to repair tools over the past 30 years, so it's not a new thing for me.
  As a small sidebar of sorts on this topic,  the car business is historically a great example of this in several ways. If you add up the replacement cost of each individual item in a car, it often exceeds the total cost of the car purchased new.
Also,  the 'warranty' cost of a part is not the same as the retail cost that you would get charged if you wanted one off the shelf. Car Manufs. and their dealers have a whole different parts cost listing for Retail, repair Shops, Insurance Companies, Aftermarket Extended Warranties, internal/ Factory Extended Warranties and plain vehicle under a warranty.  Doesn't apply in your Carvex case, but I'm just showing how complex they can make it...... [eek]

So, I really get how the repair cost of a tool can exceed the cost of a whole new one off the shelf since I've seen it with many tools over the years, no matter who makes them or how long the warranty is on it. 

 

[Michael Kellough]

My Bosch 1582 DVS (the first Bosch tool-less blade change jigsaw with dust collection)
is more than thirty years old.

  I have the non-dust collecting version of the Jigsaw, and yes, it's still going strong since the early 90's when it came out.  I bought a Carvex to supplement the Bosch, but I won't give up the Bosch jigsaw.... [smile]

I thought it came out in the '80's but you're probably right.

I have a Trion that I rarely use (the blade guides are a nuisance) so I skipped the Carvex. The Mafell is tempting...

 

[leakyroof]

My Bosch 1582 DVS (the first Bosch tool-less blade change jigsaw with dust collection)
is more than thirty years old.

  I have the non-dust collecting version of the Jigsaw, and yes, it's still going strong since the early 90's when it came out.  I bought a Carvex to supplement the Bosch, but I won't give up the Bosch jigsaw.... [smile]

I thought it came out in the '80's but you're probably right.

I have a Trion that I rarely use (the blade guides are a nuisance) so I skipped the Carvex. The Mafell is tempting...

  It was 'back there' somewhere in time..... [embarassed]
Either way, either decade,,,, those jigsaws still work.... [thumbs up]

 

[Michael Kellough]

My Bosch 1582 DVS (the first Bosch tool-less blade change jigsaw with dust collection)
is more than thirty years old.

  I have the non-dust collecting version of the Jigsaw, and yes, it's still going strong since the early 90's when it came out.  I bought a Carvex to supplement the Bosch, but I won't give up the Bosch jigsaw.... [smile]

I thought it came out in the '80's but you're probably right.

I have a Trion that I rarely use (the blade guides are a nuisance) so I skipped the Carvex. The Mafell is tempting...

  It was 'back there' somewhere in time..... [embarassed]
Either way, either decade,,,, those jigsaws still work.... [thumbs up]

Just cleaned up from using the 1582 in the little table Bosch made to invert the saw and use it like a scroll saw (Rockwell made a complete motorized unit a couple years ago). Sure glad I snagged that thing when I did, they weren't around long.

 

[Holmz]

...
Festool comes out the looser on a tool that dies just after 3 years.

I almost feel sorry for the company reading ˆthisˆ.
The fellow that purchased the tool doesn't seem like he is not coming out a winner?

It’s someone that’ll not only replace that tool with a Bosch, it’s someone that will buy a Mafell track saw or Mirka sander too if they’ve lost confidence in the brand.

Confidence can often be more of scientific or mathematical word. Faith is probably a more accurate word.

In a confidence sense it is difficult to find much fault with the Mirka tools, with them have been doing only sanders for a long time.  However I did see reports of 110v units having problems, so confidence in their electrical tools, based upon their pneumatic tools was initially an extrapolation.

I have seen enough Carvex and Kapex complaints that it seems statistically significant, but without some numbers released it is cannot be quantified by the customer. However it should be enough of a flag to question one's faith in the tools being universally good across the entire line-up...

It is also pretty much a fact that people find being cordless and having an LED is a requirement, so it seems like there is a market.

 

[peter halle]

Love to see the normal bashers bashing.  Carvex tool failures are rare here.  Tools are smarter than they used to be.  Cutting to the perfection level required or expected are more numerous. 

Peter

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

Love to see the normal bashers bashing.  Carvex tool failures are rare here.  Tools are smarter than they used to be.  Cutting to the perfection level required or expected are more numerous. 

Peter

Kapex seems to win the Festool tool failure wars, but Carvex and the 5” Random orbit sanders seem to come next from what I’ve seen.

Both the Carvex and smaller cheaper sanders also seem to have a much higher tool repair cost proportional to the cost of the tool than other Festool tools, including the Kapex.

With the small sanders, once you remove the price of the systainer, the cost is much more in line with the cost of other “professional” sanders.

The Carvex is priced significantley higger than most other jigsaws.

Just for Optics or reputational reasons, Festool should just limit the maximum repair price, especially if a tool is still in production and on the shelves. If the repair cost of a tool is more than the new cost, why not just pull a new jigsaw out of a systainer in stock storage, print a label with some type of mark to show to show the switch internally, charge 75% of new cost, for a tool that your repair department can clain has basically been “repaired to brand new condition”, owner gets a jigsaw that should last another 3 years of similar use. I doubt Festool would be loosing money on this and while the repair cost might seem expensive it wouldn’t be higher than new cost.

 

[peter halle]

How many Carvex tool failures (not possibly operational issues) have been written about here?  Go search.

Peter

 

[Rip Van Winkle]

How many Carvex tool failures (not possibly operational issues) have been written about here?  Go search.

Peter

I’ve seen a number of threads about Carvex issues since I’ve been a member here, and more from before than.

Just searching thru my history there were at least six different threads, which may not seem like a lot, but I’m not exactley a daily poster on FOG.

Other than the Kapex, most failure complaints about Festool tools seem to be, plugit sucks, vacuum socket dead, dominoe slot not wide enough, router plunge rods rusted, jumpy sander, hookit pad failure, etc.

 

[J0hn]

How many Carvex tool failures (not possibly operational issues) have been written about here?  Go search.

Peter

How many posts have been deleted because someone tried to mention one of the previous Carves failures? 

 

[semenza]

How many Carvex tool failures (not possibly operational issues) have been written about here?  Go search.

Peter

How many posts have been deleted because someone tried to mention one of the previous Carves failures?

No posts were deleted because someone tried to mention one of the previous Carvex failures. They were deleted because the one you insist on referring to was a very hot topic with a lot of debate as to whether or not Festool should have warrantied the saw. That topic was locked due to the animosity being created between members taking sides. That particular incident topic will not be resurrected here. The reasons above are why it was locked  and  it is not the same situation as the OP of this topic finds himself in.  I will note that the other topic in question is still available for anyone wishing to go read it.  Nothing being swept under the rug.

Seth

 

[Holmz]

Love to see the normal bashers bashing.  Carvex tool failures are rare here.  Tools are smarter than they used to be.  Cutting to the perfection level required or expected are more numerous. 

Peter

I am not sure Carvex failures are that rare here.
(I have never heard about the failures anywhere else but on FOG...)
But I have no experience of a failure.

The apologists seem to outnumber the "bashers".