Charging for stain and finish?

[JeremyH.]

I've looked this up a lot online. However most of the information that Google gives me is out-dated.

Where it gets confusing is that when I calculate the money made per hour, it's often no where near the shop hourly rate for wood. Yet everyone says spray guys get paid really well, if they're good, and by shops that still collect off the top.

I'm looking at ordering a bunch from Barker Cabinets in Oregon, because they appear high quality and offer about all the customization one could need, with a few decent wood choices. Also I don't own a shop and may only be doing a couple things with them, maybe one time. Anyways, they only offer one boring and cheap looking stain, so I can't possibly use it. When I calculate their sq/ft it's around $19. Now that makes sense to me, because it would make money. But then I see rates of $4, and I'm like how does that work if I've got to sand it 3x etc...

When I enter into here, my area code and sqft, I get $5.21-12.41. I know I'm going to spend up to $40 in red water stain, and $60-80 for a can of finish. $148.18 - $352.95. At $150 I make maybe $30 for no less than 4 hours of work. At the high end it's $58/hr. But again this is confusing because shop time is $68-100/hr for decent quality work. There's overhead, so even at the high rate say a sprayer gets $30/hr and bonuses, the shop gets $10/hr and the rest goes to supplies and maintenance of a spray booth. It still seems like a stretch to me. I suppose the overhead in JUST a spray-booth, not a wood-shop, is less, but it doesn't matter if you have both and they aren't both operating at the same time because at the end of the month your loan for your Felder still needs a payment.

Am I missing something?

 

[Scott B.]

Not sure what the exact question is.

But my general answer (as someone who does it) is that you need the right facilities, the right equipment, and intimate knowledge of product and process.

Product drives process. It is the fuel that either drives or stalls the engine in a spray shop. If you don't know product, it doesn't matter how well you know process or gear.

Mastering product helps you to eliminate every unnecessary step from your workflow and brings the efficiency that creates profit.

It takes time. And there is no recipe. Just a whole bunch of ingredients.

 

[JeremyH.]

I'm just asking what the customer pays. It's confusing to understand how some people make money with it, and others don't.

I've sprayed some, and efficiency is key, for sure. Any extra sanding or mess ups are the downfall of profit being consistent and good. In order to prevent that one must know what they're working on, and what with, quiet well.

 

[mastercabman]

A sprayer gets $30 an hour plus bonuses?
Wow!
Where do you get that info?

 

[JeremyH.]

A sprayer gets $30 an hour plus bonuses?
Wow!
Where do you get that info?

I was just guessing, because people say they get paid well, and they make so much money for the shops if they're good, and then they get bonuses. It's not exactly a lot of money, but it's getting close to the "sweet spot" of $70k that supposedly makes people happy - with beyond being diminishing returns.

 

[mastercabman]

A sprayer gets $30 an hour plus bonuses?
Wow!
Where do you get that info?

I was just guessing, because people say they get paid well, and they make so much money for the shops if they're good, and then they get bonuses. It's not exactly a lot of money, but it's getting close to the "sweet spot" of $70k that supposedly makes people happy - with beyond being diminishing returns.

I need a change of career!!!! [big grin]

 

[JeremyH.]

I Googled it, and the pay is awful according to Google, which must be for someone that's awful. I've heard entirely contrary stories for shops that need to have someone that's actually good.

People seem to think all these low wages these days are special. But I always ask the question, just how much money would you have if you paid your neighbor to make the things you own? Could you? Well then you know whether your life is an inflated charade. Even at minimum wage of $15/hr it's a hell of a stretch to buy clothing from your own country; good luck buying a new car. Student loans, insurance? To pay for school while you're going you'd have to make $17/hr. BTW I've never known a carpenter to even take less than $25/hr. A lot of these listed wages online seem bogus, because even job listings are higher that I see.

ANYWAY I'm still confused on the stain and spray pricing.

 

[bkharman]

No offense but Googling for answers like this is NOT the way to do it. You were right to come on here for the question but I think you didn't really ask it well enough for quality responses.

See if Seth or Peter can change the title and make it something like "estimated pricing for wood finishing". In the body say what the project is (cabinets, chairs, doors and drawers, etc) and ask what pros would charge for the stain and finish.

Example:

What would you guys charge (ballpark) for staining and sealing maple 5 piece cabinet doors. I have 20 of them and they are roughly 18x30.

Just a suggestion...  I use Google a lot but it can really get you  in trouble quickly!!

Cheers. Bryan.

 

[Scott B.]

I am confused.

Are we trying to figure out how much a spray technician gets paid or how much a customer pays for stain?

And I guess more importantly, why are we doing this again?

 

[JeremyH.]

Customer.

I need to approximate what to charge.

Sorry, I guess my brain doesn't align with the lingo...

 

[mastercabman]

Customer.

I need to approximate what to charge.

Sorry, I guess my brain doesn't align with the lingo...

You could charge $30/hour

 

[Scott B.]

Ultimately, what you charge for any service needs to be driven by your own production rates and costs of doing business.

Finishing is often custom work and so square foot pricing for finishes doesn't really apply.

 

[JeremyH.]

Ultimately, what you charge for any service needs to be driven by your own production rates and costs of doing business.

Finishing is often custom work and so square foot pricing for finishes doesn't really apply.

Thanks, that is helpful advice. You made me just consider that there isn't another option if I'm doing the work, unless I can pair with a place that does them. But even then the transportation and handling doesn't necessarily do any favors by the time the customer sees a bill. Perhaps my aim shouldn't be to compete, but offer customization with the package, and bill it relative to what my operations cost; not as a separate entity.

 

[Scott B.]

Ultimately, what you charge for any service needs to be driven by your own production rates and costs of doing business.

Finishing is often custom work and so square foot pricing for finishes doesn't really apply.

Thanks, that is helpful advice. You made me just consider that there isn't another option if I'm doing the work, unless I can pair with a place that does them. But even then the transportation and handling doesn't necessarily do any favors by the time the customer sees a bill. Perhaps my aim shouldn't be to compete, but offer customization with the package, and bill it relative to what my operations cost; not as a separate entity.

That is exactly the goal, I am glad you see it.

There is no sense in becoming bound to the "going rate", that is a race to the bottom. Small custom shops can't possibly compete on price with larger mass production operations. So, we win on quality. Make it a customized service. Quality wins every time.

That said, as above, you have to nail product and then process to find your profit sweet spot.

Please let me know if I can help in any way as you move in this direction.