Chisels

[Birdhunter]

I’ve started learning hand cut dovetails. I’d like to buy a set of really nice chisels. If cost was not a factor, what should I buy?

 

[lwoirhaye]

Barr are nice.  Forged heavier than most premium chisels around these days I think.  I like the mass for chopping.

Blue Spruce and Harold & Saxon make some fine chisels too, as do Japanese makers if you can tolerate the Japanese style. 

I bought a Veritas chisel and it cuts well enough. Too light for my taste and I like a ferule when I chop.

 

[Sanderxpander]

I'm not an expert by any means, but I believe learning to sharpen and whet properly and quickly is a bigger factor than which brand chisel you use. Maybe you're already proficient, I don't know.

 

[Birdhunter]

Ive been using diamond stones and a Lie-Nielsen roller guide. I bought a set of Narex Premium chisels. I’ve had to really work to flatten the backs as they were pretty wavy. I can get them shiny sharp on the XX  Fine stone. I am not sure if the secondary bevel is necessary.

Learning a lot.

 

[aloysius]

The Japanese still make some of the nicest "proper" dovetail chisels.  These tend (not exclusively, however) to have a hard thin layer of cast steel forge-laminated to a softer protective steel backing.  Hard steel is brittle steel, however, which will require careful storage, usage & sharpening techniques.

By "proper" dovetailers I'm referring to those extremely rare true triangular sectioned chisels, not bevelled-edged as is most common these days.  The parallel (in both planes) sides of b/e chisels effectively precludes their use in stopped dovetail housings (i.e. half-laps).  Any face-lapping of true triangular chisels will of course progressively reduce their effective width:  not really that big an issue as they're generally only used for end-grain paring.  Cheaper, more disposable chisels can be used for the majority of non-critical roughing work.

A home-made or ground "fishtail" chisel can also be an extremely useful addition too.

 

[Knight Woodworks]

Chisels are a personal thing. If possible, it would be good to hold a few different brands to see what works for you.

I have owned 80's era Marples, Stanley, Two Cherries, Robert Sorby, Barr, Lie Nielson and an assortment of vintage makers. Of these I prefer the LN. If I were buying today I'd take a hard look at Veritas.

John

 

[JFelchlin]

I own sets of - And prefer:
Octagonal Boxwood Handle Beveled Edged Bench Chisels - Robert Sorby
English Style Mortise (“pig sticker”) Chisels - Ray Isles

The Robert Sorby chisels handle well, stay sharp, and cut clean.
The Ray Isles chisels - Hard to come by - Are more of a “collector set” -
As I now do my mortise and tenon joinery with my Festool 500/700 Domino Joiners and my Leigh FMT Pro Mortise & Tenon Jig.

 

[Cheese]

I use Pfeil which is a Swiss brand, for real wood working projects. They take a very nice edge, stay sharp and can be purchased from Woodcraft.

I also use plastic handled Stanley's for rough carpentry projects. While I try not to hit metallic objects, it has happened and they hold up quite well.

I've owned the Stanley's for the last 35 years and the Pfeil's for the last 25 years.

 

[Knight Woodworks]

The Robert Sorby chisels handle well, stay sharp, and cut clean.

Joe, I have had a set of the octagonal boxwood Sorbys for about 20 years. They don't hold an edge worth a darn. Glad yours work well.

John

 

[JFelchlin]

Hey John:
Sorry to hear that. But... You may be right.
I thought the same about mine - 'Till I learned how to sharpen 'em like they were "razors". Wouldn't trade 'em.
And... I confess -
I'm kinda "anal" about my chisels and hand planes - In that they get a lot more "attention" than they probably really need (and most dude's would give 'em).

 

[Knight Woodworks]

My main issue was edge retention. Haven't touched them in years, as I recall I could get them sharp enough to shave the hair on the back of my arm and pare white pine end grain. They just wouldn't hold an edge. My other issue were the hoops. The movement of the basswood was enough to break them.  About ten years ago I got a set of LN, been happy every since. Though as I say the Veritas are appealing.

John

 

[JFelchlin]

John:
Glad that you found what works for you.

I live outside Colorado Springs, CO - At an altitude of 7,500’.
The humidity here is low - Usually between 15%-35%. (We love it.)
The good news is that my tools stay nice and dry - Never any rust problems -
Not like when we lived in Virginia Beach, VA.
But... Periodically... The wood on a hand tool - “Shrinks/Tightens up”.
The metal hoops on a couple of my Sorby’s came loose.
I applied a little Titebond III (what I had at the time) to the wood handle collar -
And snugged the collar rings back up on ‘em. Worked like a charm.
I’ve used ‘em pretty hard since then. No problems.

BTW... I agree with you, wholeheartedly, regarding Lie-Nielsen.
I own/use about every Lie-Nielsen hand plane they make.
And... Smile every time I pick one up.
Everything L-N makes is beautiful to look at. And even more gratifying to use.

 

[ChuckM]

Whether costs were a factor or not, I find short chisels like these the best because

a) I always sit on a stool when chopping
b) with the short handles, I don't have to raise my arm high up:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70931&cat=1,41504 (chisels b to d would be my choices)

Your work habit may differ and therefore my recommendation may not suit you. Sitting down whenever possible has allowed me to work in a prolonged period of time without feeling worn out afterwards.

By the way, I do not own the Veritas butt chisels, and have only one from the more affordable version:http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=30029&cat=1,41504

I replaced the plastic handle with a wooden one, and reground it to 30*. It is my go-to chopping chisel, even though I also have the Narex, Veritas chisels (non butt) and Ashley Isles.

 

[thudchkr]

I have, and use, the following sets of chisels.

Veritas PM-V11, each width they offer in their bench chisel lineup. I use these the most often when I plan on striking the chisel with a mallet, but don’t hesitate to use them for paring if they are conveniently at hand when such tasks arise.

Lie-Nielsen bench chisels. Again each size they offer. I usually grab these for paring and fitting of joints. I tend to avoid using a mallet on them since I got the Veritas, but previously used them that way, and still would if the Veritas were unavailable.

Narex paring chisels, set of four. I use these when I need a longer reach. They don’t have the edge retention of the previous two premium sets, but they came without the premium price that accompanied such chisels. Narex are a good value, but require considerably more work to get them setup while the two premium sets above come pretty much requiring only a hone before putting them to use.

A set of 30 yr old Bracht chisels, bought from Leichtung Workshops during the 80s. They were my first set and they are still used regularly, more for general tasks, but they’ll still do whatever task you ask of em.

Also have a 4 pc set of Footprint chisels with the blue plastic handles. They stay in my construction bag, and get used for any task that arises when away from the shop. They sharpen well and edge retention is decent.  A great set for what they are used for.

Also have a set of boxwood handled Marples mortising chisels. I only use them for chopping mortises and they function well in that capacity.

Having many chisels allows me to sharpen less frequently as I do not have a dedicated sharpening station and have to pull out my stuff and then store it again after I’ve gotten my tools back into cutting shape. I’m able to just grab another chisel, from another set if need be, and continue what I’m doing.

If I were to have only one set, it would probably be the Veritas PM-V11.

Mind you, these are all European style chisels. If you want to consider Japanese chisels, there is a whole nother world there to explore, (and you can pretty much spend whatever “high amount” you’re capable of.)

 

[HarveyWildes]

For dovetailing, my vote goes to PMV-11 chisels from Lee Valley.  I've owned Record (older), Sorby, Lie Nielsen, newer Stanley Sweetheart, and some moderately priced Japanese chisels.  I currently use PMV-11 for fine work and Record for beater chisels.  Japanese chisels hold an edge longer, but PMV-11 comes close and I like the ergonomics better.

I'd suggest that you look at Derek Cohen's web pages - he has some very analytical articles on chisels that I like, and he is an Aussie, so using hard wood is just par for the course.

I also prefer dovetailing approaches that hog out most of the dovetail with a saw, and then use chisels for paring.  I try to avoid "chopping" dovetails.  That reduces the force needed to use the chisels to hand or light mallet use.

 

[Birdhunter]

In my journey in learning dovetail joints, I’ve progressed from horrible to mediocre. But, I am making progress.

I own just about every LN plane and delight in their use so I’m inclined toward their chisels.

What sizes do I need?

 

[Corwin]

...
I own just about every LN plane and delight in their use so I’m inclined toward their chisels.

What sizes do I need?

The LN chisels are socket chisels, which means that the handle will easily come on and off. Some like this feature, and some do not. So, should you chose to go with the LNs, you may wish to purchase just a single chisel to start to see if you like them or not. If getting your first, I suggest getting 1/2" to start.

 

[Knight Woodworks]

Agreed, start with a 1/2". Then let the work dictate your next purchase.

Consider a fishtail or a pair of skewed chisels for cleaning up hard to reach corners. I'm happy with my Blue Spruce fishtails.

John

 

[ChuckM]

Sounds like you have done some dovetails already. What sizes did you use? How comfortable did each size feel to you? And how well could you control the chisel or cuts? Your past experience would be a more reliable guide to choosing the high-end ones, regardless of the brand.

I find, not necessarily true for you, that it is harder to control with wider chisels such as 3/4" or 1", and 3/8" is my usual chopping chisel (LV butt and Narex; I use the Veritas and AI's mostly for paring...too nice to wreck with a mallet). Do 3/8" and 1/2" make any difference? They seem to for me as I can remove waste easier with a 3/8" (less wedging and resistance for every pounding). I am sure some may say 3/4" is better because it cuts down the no. of chopping.

Of course, wood also matters. I take more time to work with hard maple than cherry or walnut, whether it is chopping or sawing. (Don't touch the coping saw blade...don't ask how I know  :-[) With softer wood, I would be willing to use a 1/2" or 5/8".

As others have mentioned, I don't like the socket type as the handles can come off due to seasonal changes...they do look nice though. I read somewhere that you can use hairspray to minimize the problem.

Since budget is not an issue, a fishtail chisel is nice, again not essential unless you do the half-blinds. I made my own, by regrinding a Narex. Rarely do i use it, however, in through dovetails.

P.S. When chopping, I do not hold the handle, but the body of the blade and rest my palm on the work. It gives me control and precision. I can also easily see if the chisel is held perpendicular to the work. Just remember, I am in a sitting position when chopping dovetails.

 

[Birdhunter]

Thanks to all responders. I think I’ll go to Highland Woodworking and handle both the Blue Spruce and LN chisels.