Choosing my next Festool drill(s) drives me mad! Help, please!

[grobkuschelig]

Hi there,

I know, this is the "umpteenth" drill choosing thread...
BUT: I need your help, fellow FOGers!

Over the last couple of years I have slowly build up my Festool-Collection and I am very happy with every one of them.
I have a CXS (my 2nd Festool, after the OF1010..) and I love it immensly!

But I found that with my projects moving further and gaining more experience, I need something a little bit more powerful.
The contenders for the next step are clearly lined up. I want to stay in Festool-Land to be able to make use of the interchanging bits and pieces (Centrotec, chucks etc...)
So. Here is my maddening plus/minus sheet that keeps me up at night:

C18 (I am more of a C-guy, handled both at the dealer and feel that the C18 is more the "extension to my hand" like the CXS)
+ extension to my hand, tremendous feeling of control/precision
+ a little more power than CXS
+ Off-Center chuck
+ nice and light with a 3.1 battery
+ C-Style with big bit-garage/magnets
+ auto-light
- not very fast (Rpm)
- plain drilling

PDC/DRC 18+4
+ lots and lots of power
+ high 3800 rpm
+ 4 gears etc.
- feels less precise
- manual light (since I don't work on a roof everyday, I don't need to conserve the power... and auto would be nice for me)
- little on the heavy side

BHC 18
+ hammer-action
+ SDS
+ hole-saw capable
- mostly only stone-work focused
- no fast rpm mode

I know, those don't into one basket.  [dead horse]
But, Festool have a great "get a battery for free"-deal running until the end of the month and so I would be willing to get two tools

(one in some kind of a set, the other as "basic") which should enable me to comfortably run both on the 4 batteries (in total, 2 with the set, 1 free with each tool).
My goal would be to opt for a "compact" set, to have a couple 3.1 amps and a couple 5.2 amps.

My biggest decision hangups are based on these topics:
- I know I need something more powerful than the CXS, since I reach it's limits more often (big Forstners, speed, occasional hole in metal)
- I want the drill to be as light as possible for the majority of the tasks (don't like to carry the weight if I don't need it)
- I am all in Systainers, since I have no workshop space. I pack whatever I need and move to the place where the work is. Festool is great for that, but it need to be able to not have to pack everything I own and still get the job done.
- How useful will the rpm increase of the PDC/DRC be? (Have not experienced it during my work)
- Would the BHC be usable for wood at all, or just a plain concrete/masonry drill?

For my scope of work:
- I mostly build furniture, anything that might be used around the house
- The odd renovation and home improvement in between
- There might be a house to build, sometime in the next years

So, if you would be so kind to hit me with your thoughts, I am sure it will help me decide!  [poke]  [thanks]

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

I own the txs and the pdc.  I owned a t15 and sold it when the pdc came out.  The PDC is an amazing drill.  Never felt that it wasn't precise.  The added speed is amazing with pocket hole jigs.  I do everything from framing to building cabinets and use it almost everyday in a professional environment.  The only flaw in my eyes with the PDC is drilling concrete,  is gets too hot and the drill starts acting weird from the heat.  Works great for drilling brick.  I wouldnt hesitate getting the pdc.  It's a great all around drill that has a great balance to it. 

 

[ScotF]

I really like the PDC and the speed and power have come in handy for my building furniture. I have the TXS for smaller stuff and a C12 too. The chuck options with the C18 make it very versatile for furniture and home projects and the offset chuck is great. The say you do not need it with the CXS or TXS but I find it handy to have. That option is not available on the PDC. I use a right angle more, though, and the PDC right angle is nice. I like being able to turn the light on and off and the attic systainer is great. Works for limited drilling in concrete, but the BHC is better suited to that. If you can get two tools, the the PDC and C18 would be the ideal set-up, but you need full sets on each for all the chucks.

 

[grobkuschelig]

...the new Makitas LXT sub-compact brushless...

I don't see being locked into the Festool battery system as a healthy financial choice.

Thank you for your input. I will take a glance at those, but I generally do not see myself branching too much into cordless.
I use dust collection a lot and mostly do thus like using corded tools.

I want to get the Carvex (cordless) to be able to have a quick, transportable saw to cut the odd part. So I'll have some cordless 18V Fetsool anyway. So the Drill just adds more Batteries.

You are right about the "limited" possibilities, but on the other hand, there are also great ones like DWC etc...

 

[grobkuschelig]

I own the txs and the pdc.  I owned a t15...

The added speed is amazing with pocket hole jigs....It's a great all around drill that has a great balance to it.

Thanks!
Would you be able to draw a quick comparison of the C15/TXS?
Since I have not used the C/T on a daily basis, I would really like to get a better idea of how big the difference is to the CXS/TXS.

On the PDC: Anything you really dislike?
Do you use the "belt hooks" much? How do they perform?
I use the hook on the CXS almost everytime I handle the drill. Form and placement of the PDC hooks look to me, like they would not keep the drill safe while mounting ladders etc..

 

[grobkuschelig]

I really like the PDC and the speed and power have come in handy...
I have the TXS for smaller stuff and a C12 too...
The chuck options with the C18 make it very versatile for furniture and home projects and the offset chuck is great...
Works for limited drilling in concrete, but the BHC is better suited to that...

ScotF! You are killing me!  [eek]
So basically I need the complete range? Is that what you are saying?  [poke]

Besides the offset-chuck what do you use the C12 for and would the TXS be able to handle those tasks?
For "offset-use" I have been using one of these flexible-long-bit-holders, which has worked out quite nice so far.
Since I have the right-angle chuck on the CXS already, I think I'd go for one set and a bare tool to not have every option on every tool.

Mainly I am looking for a drill that adds a lot of possibilities to my CXS.
If this is best served by two tools, I can buy two.
But there is always another tool to spend the money on, or clamps, or...  [big grin]

 

[geoffshep]

Same dilemma here - had the CXS and wanted something bigger. I got the PDC set, plus a free battery, and later the HKC basic, plus another free battery - so now have 2 battery tools and 4 batteries. 

The PDC is great for the extra power and also does masonry well. I do find the gear selection switch difficult to set - it always seems to overshoot whatever position I want to set it at but it is a nice drill. Not the cheapest for what I need but it fits well into my expanding Festool collection.

 

[Birdhunter]

I do mostly small stuff like jewelry boxes, but sometimes do furniture and outdoor benches, gun racks, and indoor built in bookcases.

I confess to be a tool junkie with more money than restraint. I have the following Festool drills. CXS, TSX, C12, TI15, T18 and a Bosch SDS.

I use either the CXS or the TSX 90% of the time. The T18 comes out when I need lots of power. The TI15 comes out when I have to drive lag bolts. The SDS comes out to drill concrete. I looked at the newer bigger drills and concluded that I don't need them.

I think Festool made a mistake in not offering an 18v true SDS hammer drill. When they discontinued the TI15, they had no true hammer drill in the line up.

 

[six-point socket II]

Hi!

I start with the one that, in it's currently offered configuration, would be the last Festool drill I'd get: The BHC.

It's really a neat rotary hammer, it fits Festool's orientation speaking of the trades they mainly cater to and has more than enough power to drill small to well above your average medium diameter holes in concrete. BUT it lacks the "hammer only" function which in my eyes is pretty much unforgivable speaking of versatility. Speaking of 18V rotary hammers and (hammering) hole saws in masonry/concrete - don't do it. (Especially never in reinforced concrete) If you need to do this once or twice - no problem. But more often than that - no way. This type of use tends to wear out slip clutches rather fast and there are way better suited tools for this type of work. You're going to invest in a way more potent rotary hammer / drill anyway once you start to build your house.

Now for the C/T 18+3. The most important feature (which I in fact do miss on my PDC) to me would be the selector on top to choose between drilling and driving screws. If you do a lot of assembly type stuff this is great because it allows you to keep your preset torque for driving screws but overrides it to full speed/torque when switched to drilling mode. This is amazing!

Other than that, 1500 rpm aren't 3800 - that is true. Question is: if you really like the C-shape, are you willing to substitute that for the 3800 rpm of the PDC/DRC? Basically a question of how many times you're really going to (need) use top speed.

Speaking of the PDC - it's hands down the drill I'd get. I love it. It's an unbelievable versatile drill/driver but again, a percussion drill is NOT for drilling concrete and surely not reinforced concrete. Masonry on the other hand, yes. And I can tell you, with the Centrotec stone drill bits and at 3800 rpm - the PDC cuts in masonry like it's butter - you don't even need to switch to percussion mode. It's like a miracle. Especially compared to using your typical 2 kg type rotary hammer in drill only mode, that will only do about 900 rpm under load. Different world, entirely! The gearbox can be a little tricky at times. Another great thing: it reduces/increases speed depending on torque setting. This makes it very easy to drive a screw even in delicate materials - it's an amazing feature. Example: You're in 2nd gear with a top speed of 850 rpm in drilling setting. Once you set torque it also adjusts speed accordingly and will not go above a certain rpm. The PDC is a fantastic drill/driver and would be ( IS ) my #1 choice. Just take your time to get to know it if you should buy it.

The hooks on the PDC might seem strange at first, I had my doubts - but they do work.

So my recommendation would be to get the PDC - and if you need to drill up to medium diameter holes in concrete and want to stay in the system, get the BHC, too. On the other hand - if you don't need it immediately, and can take pass on the free battery I'd wait and see if Festool updates the BHC. As far as I know, a hammer-only mode is wanted by a lot of people. Can't beat a light-weight, versatile rotary hammer that can hammer-only, too - and almost all competitors have this. Like I said in the beginning, pretty much unforgivable to not have it in todays market.

Kind regards,
Oliver

 

[grobkuschelig]

Same dilemma here - had the CXS and wanted something bigger. I got the PDC set, plus a free battery, and later the HKC basic, plus another free battery - so now have 2 battery tools and 4 batteries. 

The PDC is great for the extra power and also does masonry well...

For masonry I could always use my old corded Metabo, which does not really see any use at all.

I think the free batteries are what makes it so appealing. [emoji846] the PSC 420 would be very welcome for the "quick cut outside" and since I am working on my own most of the time, 4-5 batteries should be more than enough to keep me up and running..

 

[batau]

I was in the market for a powerful drill ever since my Makita cordless became sick and gets stuck in hammer/impact mode (only way I found to get it back into drill/driver mode was take it apart each time so not exactly convenient).

I already have a Festool CXS for the lighter tasks, and it is great, but i didn't really want another battery platform as i can't see myself getting any other Festool cordless tools.

Festool had a special recently on the DR 18 QuaDrill (corded), so i ended up getting that. Plenty of power, cord wasn't that inconvenient, and then can leave my Makita drill permanently in impact mode for the odd occasion i need to drill into bricks.

 

[grobkuschelig]

I confess to be a tool junkie with more money than restraint. I have the following Festool drills. CXS, TSX, C12, TI15, T18 and a Bosch SDS.

I use either the CXS or the TSX 90% of the time. The T18 comes out when I need lots of power...

I know what you mean with "tool junkie", but I need to take it slow. [emoji6]

What kind of applications make you switch from the XSs to the T18?
Just to get a better picture, if this reflects my use cases as well.

I find that especially in soft woods, I'd like to have higher rpms than what my CXS (1.5amp) is capable of.
The holes sometimes are just not clean enough, especially when I'm not on a fresh battery.
And also with the forstners the CXS struggles too much.

So far, I've built beds, wardrobes, tables, etc. All with the CXS and the occasional help of the old Metabo...

 

[grobkuschelig]

Hi!

I start with the one that, in it's currently offered configuration, would be the last Festool drill I'd get: The BHC.

Now for the C/T 18+3. The most important feature (which I in fact do miss on my PDC) to me would be the selector on top to choose between drilling and driving screws... This is amazing!

Other than that, 1500 rpm aren't 3800 - that is true. Question is: if you really like the C-shape, are you willing to substitute that for the 3800 rpm of the PDC/DRC? Basically a question of how many times you're really going to (need) use top speed.

Speaking of the PDC - it's hands down the drill I'd get. I love it. It's an unbelievable versatile drill/driver...

The hooks on the PDC might seem strange at first, I had my doubts - but they do work.

Hi Oliver, thanks for the elaboration!

Especially on the BHC. I was fearing that it might be a little underpowered for an SDS drill. As you stated, I currently do not really have a use for it. It would be a "just in case" purchase, which makes limited sense... (the tool junkie came through..

Yes. I really like the C-type. It just feels that much more precise and weighted.
The 3800 rpm just sound so good! [emoji51]
I don't know if they will really be needed/used. Although I might use them all the time, once I have them.
The rpm and the sheer power and the tremendous versatility are the things that make the PDC interesting to me at the moment.

I was hoping for a PDC upgrade with new hooks and some new features, but it does not seem to happen...

 

[grobkuschelig]

I was in the market for a powerful drill ever since my Makita cordless became sick and gets stuck in hammer/impact mode (only way I found to get it back into drill/driver mode was take it apart each time so not exactly convenient).

I already have a Festool CXS for the lighter tasks, and it is great, but i didn't really want another battery platform as i can't see myself getting any other Festool cordless tools.

Festool had a special recently on the DR 18 QuaDrill (corded), so i ended up getting that. Plenty of power, cord wasn't that inconvenient, and then can leave my Makita drill permanently in impact mode for the odd occasion i need to drill into bricks.

Thanks @batau
But I definitely want to go cordless.
The corded quadrill is nice, a friend of mine owns the 20/4, but it is too close to the old Metabo that is still in good shape...

 

[Birdhunter]

I pull out the T18 when I am drilling into extremely hard woods with anything over a 1/4" bit. I also use the T18 when driving larger screws even with predrilled holes. I usually wax screws before setting them in. I use a lot of exotics in my work and they are usually very hard and very brittle. Switching back and forth between C and T handles doesn't bother me. Both fit my hands.

 

[Brice Burrell]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is that the C18/C12 fit the hand much differently than the CXS.  The small size of the CXS fits the hand perfectly while I find the full size C drills don't feel good in my hands.  I'd suggest if you think you want go the rout of the C18 that try one on your hands first.

I have the PDC and its a fine drill but there are other drills out there that will do as good or a better job for much less money.  I think Festool cordless drill are top notch and the batteries are hands down the best I've ever used (I can't vouch for the new air stream version).  That said, there are a lot of good choices out there that might fit your needs just as well. If you use cordless drills nearly everyday then Festool can be a very wise choice.  If you don't use your drills regularly then saving some money on another brand might make sense, and you can put the savings towards another Festool purchase.

 

[ScotF]

I pull out the T18 when I am drilling into extremely hard woods with anything over a 1/4" bit. I also use the T18 when driving larger screws even with predrilled holes. I usually wax screws before setting them in. I use a lot of exotics in my work and they are usually very hand and very brittle. Switching back and forth between C and T handles doesn't bother me. Both fit my hands.

I agree with what Bird hunter says. Larger drilling and screw tasks max out the TXS, but my C12 powers through with ease. The C18 would be even better. For furniture, I think the C and T style might be better suited to the task over the PDC. Oliver brings up great points on the switching between drill and drive on the C drill and also his points on how the PDC works. For me I needed something with more torque than the C or T provided and the PDC fit nicely. I really like the drill as a good all around drill/driver. I have debated selling the C12 and getting a C18 or T18 to keep the same battery size across all tools, but that is an extra cost that I am not sure would gain me much over my current set-up. The c and T style are lighter weight, but the PDC is not overly large and it is very well balanced. Nothing is close to the TXS or CXS, but you have that covered for those times anyway.

 

[Birdhunter]

One more thought.... if I had to keep two drills, they would be either the CSX or TSX and the T18. If only one drill, it would be the T18.

Im struck about the comment of needing more torque. My T18 can hurt you with its torque if you are not braced. More than that, I cannot use.

 

[jeh]

If you like the 'C' drill then get that. No need to second guess the other drills unless you have a legitimate need for their capabilities. Weight should be a consideration if you are going to use it for long periods of time, especially if the other drills weigh which I am certain they do.

Looking at what you will use it for you can rule out the other two.

 

[ScotF]

One more thought.... if I had to keep two drills, they would be either the CSX or TSX and the T18. If only one drill, it would be the T18.

Im struck about the comment of needing more torque. My T18 can hurt you with its torque if you are not braced. More than that, I cannot use.

I bought mine with the intent to screw wood through a dowel cutter and that requires lots of power and torque. Somewhat of an extreme use-case...and something probably better suited to a corded drill.