CMS-GE with CMS-OF and OF2200

[mdorsam]

In the States, for all of the construction sites I've worked, and managed, Festool products are rarely used - what I see is DeWalt, Bosch, Ryobi, and Porter-Cable across virtually all applications - Drill/Drivers, circular saws, jigsaws; anything with a plug or battery. IMO there is a general belief that Festool does not provide the highest value-for-money, for the work these people do. I know this is heresy for FOG members; as virtually every blog entry is yet another person testifying the price premium is value-based - this view is primarily held by FOG members, only; and there seems to be a continual effort by FOG members to reinforce this. Everyone here has drunk the Festool Koolaid - as non-Festool devotees often say.

There is no doubt that Festool engineers, manufactures, and markets some of the most functionally innovative products in the industry - I own several of them, and look forward to the next innovation, the next upgrade, the next ...
However, Festool should focus on upgrading in-shop functionality; not the jobsite: the CMS will probably not do this - the price point more than offsets the advanced functionality for the majority of those in the woodworking and cabinetry crafts.

This is my opinion, certainly; and expect this heresy to incur the Wrath - not my intent, actually.

 

[peter halle]

No wrath from me.  I just see based on the economy, land costs. land use theory changes, etc. that there will be a slow movement towards acceptance of tools that save space, and allow contractors to do more with a tool that takes up less space than separate tools.  I have never seen another contractor using Festools, although I have had a customer who owned one.

I predict that the tool trend in the US will very slowly move towards more compact multi-use stationary shop tools (Euro style) and also quasi - portable tools that will allow contractors to eliminate shops and do more on site.  It won't happen overnight and easily.  We are used to space and heavy iron.

The next ten years will be fun.

Peter

 

[mdorsam]

Peter:

First, thanks for the thoughtful response. For me, the slow-motion move you mention will occur; though, I see the catalyst as reduced quality of current market leaders - Porter Cable is suffering badly as a house brand inside Stanley, Black & Decker; and more and more products appear to be re-branded clones of some base-model. Bosch appears to be the only company other than Festool which is innovating and continuing to provide consistently high quality to the markets (their GCM sliding miter saw, in its first iteration, as the exception).  My day-job has taken me to most countries on the planet, and I see Bosch as the primary hand power tools used on the manufacturing floor.

Delta products have seeded Tier-1 rights to Powermatic, and I suspect Felder, Laguna, and MiniMax will see up-market moves in Bandsaws and Sliding Table Saws (a safety and Ease of Use move) - this is fertile territory for Festool.

One trend I see is increased quality and market penetration from store-brands, such as Ryobi (Home Depot) and Kobalt (Lowes) - these products offer much lower price-points for entry-level workers (which form a progressively larger portion of the US construction work force). Also, Hilti is making a concerted effort, via Home Depot, to enter the tradesman market. Net net from this rambling is a crowded competitive landscape with increasing quality at a lower price-point.

A final point - as an intermediate-level woodworker, I highly value Festool integration; though most of hand tools are Bosch from long-ago purchases. My Festool products are primarily where Bosch does not compete - The Domino, MFT/3, & Guide Rail System.

Again, Thanks for the response, I do wish Festool products were more affordable; as I would replace many of my Bosch tools.

 

[Rembo72]

I have a CMS with both the Saw and Router insert. I just love both of them. A good addition to the saw insert is the parallel guide which adds ot of value to your saw capabilities. Everytime I use the table I get happy about the results. The saw leave so much of the original 55 mm to cut, it's impressive how the plunge saw is integrated in the table and what quality of cut you get from this. I just love it and can recommend everybody to buy this if you need a convertable saw for workpieces not too big. It's accuracy and quality of cut are excellent.

 

[Kramer]

Deleted

 

[Alan m]

Deleted

thats odd

 

[oblates]

Do you think my festool router 2000 E will work on the CMS Router Table. Please let me know. Thanks. Rev. Patrick Casey, Juneau Alaska.

 

[peter halle]

Do you think my festool router 2000 E will work on the CMS Router Table. Please let me know. Thanks. Rev. Patrick Casey, Juneau Alaska.

First,  Welcome to the Forum!

The CMS system for North America at this point is designed strictly for the OF1010 and OF1400 routers only.  As a moderator I am supposed to cut and paste the following statement:

"Warning: The Festool CMS System is approved for use with only the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers in the US and Canadian markets.  It is not approved for use with the OF 2200, nor with any of the CMS modules currently available outside the US and Canadian markets (TS, Jigsaw and sanding modules).  Festool USA does not  endorse the use of these components and will not support them with spare  parts or repairs. The use of anything other than the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers and their related accessories with the CMS will void the warranty agreement on the entire system for customers within the US and Canada. Festool does not endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual."

Peter

 

[ccarrolladams]

Do you think my festool router 2000 E will work on the CMS Router Table. Please let me know. Thanks. Rev. Patrick Casey, Juneau Alaska.

[welcome] to The FOG,

In addition to what Peter wrote about only the OF1010 and OF1400 being approved for use on the CMS in North America, even in places where the OF22 is approved for the CMS, the older OF2000 will not work on the CMS.

 

[VictorL]

Do you think my festool router 2000 E will work on the CMS Router Table. Please let me know. Thanks. Rev. Patrick Casey, Juneau Alaska.

It works, but Festool is not supporting it and is not endorsing. It's up to your own risk.
I've used it with OF-1010 centering ring.

 

[Zed]

Apart from using the 1010 ring, are there any limitation? Does the lift work as expected?

 

[Job and Knock]

When I want a router table I want it set up and not have to take the router out when I need to route by hand.

When I want a table saw I want the table saw  ready to go while still having my circular saw ready to go.

In short I do not think these integrated systems are so great.

OK, but what about a site carpenter who needs to carry a whole kit around and who hasn't got a Dodge Ram with a three axle trailer to carry it all round? I'm a guy like that - my van is only slightly bigger than an American sub-compact car because a big vehicle is so expensive to run and so difficult to park here (so no different to city centres in the USA). Sites here tend to by extremely cramped and very dynamic and are often spread over multiple floors so humping a cast-iron table saw around is a no-no. We tend to get the heavy complex stuff done in the shop and brought out to us. It's cheaper and more efficient, we find. Big isn't always beautiful and smart (systems) is often better than dumb

 

[peter halle]

Apart from using the 1010 ring, are there any limitation? Does the lift work as expected?

Unless Festool USA has changed the scope of delivery, the included hardware mounts the 1010, 1400, 2200 routers.  Of course as written earlier in the thread Festool does not support the use of the 2200 in the table in North America.

Peter

 

[Job and Knock]

Wait a second, I did not say you can't buy them and many stores sell them. I said on real working job sites I have never seen them, that's the difference. If you are in the trades and see them at most jobs then that is surly a minority as most everyone I have talked to on the forums and read about have the same experience I do on actual on sites.

When I bought my first rail/plunge saw combo about 16 years ago (incidentrally a Hilti) there wasn't a single other guy out there on any job who'd ever seen such a thing. The pointed, they laughed, they thought I was a bit mad, but the ones without scales over their eyes could see that it was faster, cleaner, neater and required less correction work than their way of doing things. Fast forwards to today; pretty much everyone who sees me using a TS55 and rail saw comments on the price (still), the cleanliness and the quality of cut. The difference these days that more than a few of them go out and actually buy a set-up these days (we can be pretty darned slow to cotton on in the UK). Nobody thinks it's that odd to have a saw which runs on a rail any more and many people can see the advantages of having a vacuum (even if it is at the potential cost of a fine for not using one). One day the USA might be like that