CMS Router Table Officially Discontinued in US Market

[jeh]

For those of you who want one give serious consideration to the many excellent choices that are available which are far better values. You can go top of the line with a motor and still come in cheaper than the Festool. You'll get an excellent routing station with a better fence, larger table, and ability to use a ton of accessories. With the Festool you can use Festool routers, but that is it.

 

[squall_line]

For those of you who want one give serious consideration to the many excellent choices that are available which are far better values. You can go top of the line with a motor and still come in cheaper than the Festool. You'll get an excellent routing station with a better fence, larger table, and ability to use a ton of accessories. With the Festool you can use Festool routers, but that is it.

I did quite a bit of research and the price points weren't that much different once all of the accessories and dust collection were added on. Ultimately my need to be able to store it away when not in use to claim garage space and my current stable of Festool routers landed me on the CMS GE.

 

[squall_line]

Hartville has shipped my unit. Last I looked they had 2 units left.

I ordered mine from Hartville as well; they've been very good to me this year with consumables I've ordered from them.  I just received shipping notices for all 6 boxes that apparently make up the entire kit.  [eek]  I anticipate the official e-mail from Hartville will follow once their system processes the batch for the day.

 

[DeformedTree]

For those of you who want one give serious consideration to the many excellent choices that are available which are far better values. You can go top of the line with a motor and still come in cheaper than the Festool. You'll get an excellent routing station with a better fence, larger table, and ability to use a ton of accessories. With the Festool you can use Festool routers, but that is it.

Many people have looked at it and found the Festool CMS is the best option.  What people find to be "better" is massively subjective. Larger table....what it someone wants a smaller table.

The big thing is all the other solutions out there are some form of roll your own merging various companies bits together, which is exactly what a lot of people don't want.

Router lifts are not cheap. But then you need to go get a router to mount in that, oh and that router is unlikely to have the dust collection qualities of a festool router. Then of course you have to mount it in something. Then find a fence.....  Or, a person could just press "buy" on a single item and be done. Use the router they have.

This is like "MFTs are over priced, I can make the same thing cheaper".  No, you can't.  You can make a thing, and you might have spent less making it, but you didn't make an MFT. What you make may have aspects that are better for what you want, which is fine.

Festool stopped selling more basic CMS setup, so yes, what is there is expensive, but to re-create something like that, would not be easy.

 

[FestitaMakool]

In coordination of what DeformedTree writes..

I did my research considering Jessem, Incra, UJK and Kreg. If I wanted to invest into some the best solutions taking into what all aspects of what the Festool solution offers, it came out nearly or the same expensive. But, questionable dust collection, none had the offset fence option unless with shims, portability to go with the rigid base frame of the GE (Mounted on top of a cabinet it’s as solid as one could get). Add to that a sliding table, a reasonably good protractor that works with the sliding table.

And like many, I had the OF 1400 already, which for me meant I didn’t have to find the “right” router and lift on top of that. Still the OF 1400 unbolts easy to be used handheld.

Once you realise that most components are compatible with other Festool saws (Precisio) and various tables, wings and so on, it makes a very versatile and compact package.

I hope to see that Festool once again revives it, but it probably would be with a dedicated motor in it or ready for a proprietary motor/router mount to meet EU machine regulations.
Sautershop has dedicated motors, also from Mafell that is meant for permanent mounting in a table or an overhead jig, maybe… Festool realise this approach.

 

[edwarmr]

The CMS is a good router table for what it is meant for, which is portability. I'm sure it's the best portable table out there by a long shot. However I strongly disagree that it is as good as a Jessem or Incra table.

The CMS fence is not my favorite. The featherboard unit that attaches to the fence sticks out way too far and I find it to be annoying and in the way. I took the featherboard assembly out of the fence due to this but without the featherboard attached the fence rattled like crazy when the router was running. Jessem and Incra both have fences that are better in my opinion and they both have offsets on the fence (with Incra you can offset the infeed and outfeed). Dust collection is good but the Incra table with the clean sweep is much better in my opinion. Dados on the CMS still spew out dust whereas on the Incra most of that dust is collected because of the clean sweep rings and a good dust collector. The sliding table on the CMS is nice but takes up a lot of room and isn't something that I would want attached to the table all the time.

The full Incra setup with an amazing router lift that far surpasses the CMS lifting mechanism would run you about $1,500 after shipping if you use Incra's 10% off new customer coupon. Still almost $300 cheaper than the CMS. Add in a Woodpecker's coping sled and you are at around $1,650 total for your setup. Granted you need a good router to go with it but it would still be much cheaper than buying an OF 1400 for $625 or around $1,000 for an OF 2200. Plus with the Incra you have the LS Positioner. The LS Positioner is incredible to say the least. I have used it attached to my MFT as a fence for my CMS-VL instead of the stock Festool fence. I made a custom bracket to attach the Jessem TA fence to it and the micro adjust on the LS is just an awesome feature to have. That being said...

I went all in on the CMS assuming it could give me amazing results as both a saw with the TS-75 and a router table with the OF 1400. I was disappointed in the results to say the least but mainly with its abilities as a saw. The cuts were just not clean at all. There is no way to make the CMS-TS have a zero clearance which is unfortunate and has led to tear out on cuts. The router table aspect is good but just not as good as when I had the Incra stand alone table.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from the CMS but just wanted to say that for the price it is not in my opinion the best router table out there. If you want the portability though go for it as it is your best option.

 

[DeformedTree]

I hope to see that Festool once again revives it, but it probably would be with a dedicated motor in it or ready for a proprietary motor/router mount to meet EU machine regulations.
Sautershop has dedicated motors, also from Mafell that is meant for permanent mounting in a table or an overhead jig, maybe… Festool realise this approach.

I keep thinking they just need to shove the guts of an OF1400 or OF2200 into a CS70/TKS80 chassis and run with that. Leverage interchangeable accessories, etc.  They haven't shown anything yet, so maybe that just won't happen. But maybe once the last CMS is sold, then they will announce.

Only Festool knows how well the CMS system concept really sold, even with out the EU rules, maybe it would have gone away. It just is hard to think a company famous for routers just wouldn't have a router table setup.  They sell Saws and Table Saws,  selling Routers and Router Tables would be pretty obvious. There is always a market for compact/portable tools. Not everyone wants or can have fixed stationary large machines.

 

[FestitaMakool]

I hope to see that Festool once again revives it, but it probably would be with a dedicated motor in it or ready for a proprietary motor/router mount to meet EU machine regulations.
Sautershop has dedicated motors, also from Mafell that is meant for permanent mounting in a table or an overhead jig, maybe… Festool realise this approach.

I keep thinking they just need to shove the guts of an OF1400 or OF2200 into a CS70/TKS80 chassis and run with that. Leverage interchangeable accessories, etc.  They haven't shown anything yet, so maybe that just won't happen. But maybe once the last CMS is sold, then they will announce.

Only Festool knows how well the CMS system concept really sold, even with out the EU rules, maybe it would have gone away. It just is hard to think a company famous for routers just wouldn't have a router table setup.  They sell Saws and Table Saws,  selling Routers and Router Tables would be pretty obvious. There is always a market for compact/portable tools. Not everyone wants or can have fixed stationary large machines.

Let’s hope so. I’ve noticed cabinet and furniture makers use them as additional tools and as a mobile solution. Over here there’s really only Kreg that has one table that can be mobile (for one man) but this is quite basic in features.

One way they could have solved it, is by incorporating a second PlugIt socket (a micro version) to the router body which is connected to the power control module on the router switch and you’d run a second control cable to the external NVR switch (Off course, this could handle an electronic speed control too  [big grin]) But, the “New” OF 1010 seems to have the usual pot meter for speed dial. A new OF 1400 maybe

 

[Samo]

I went all in on the CMS assuming it could give me amazing results as both a saw with the TS-75 and a router table with the OF 1400. I was disappointed in the results to say the least but mainly with its abilities as a saw. The cuts were just not clean at all. There is no way to make the CMS-TS have a zero clearance which is unfortunate and has led to tear out on cuts. The router table aspect is good but just not as good as when I had the Incra stand alone table.

[member=70011]edwarmr[/member]

I also went all in.  My needs are for a small system at home and also to justify the TS75 that I needed for entry doors and rough stock, slabs, etc.

My only regrets are:

I need to buy a better fence with the VL/MFT setup. NAINA the CS 70 LA 488062
https://www.festool.com/accessory/488062---cs-70-la#Overview

My TS75 has a bit of run-out or blade wobble. edwarmr is this what you are experiencing?

 

[edwarmr]

[member=1501]Samo[/member]

Part of me is glad I’m not the only one but I’m sorry you are dealing with the same thing. Your explanation makes sense and is probably what I’m experiencing.

I have used the stock blade as well as the panther for ripping and the results are not very good with either. I ALWAYS have blade marks with whatever type of hardwood I use (walnut, sapele, hard maple). This is true whether I’m crosscutting or ripping. I have the ability to micro adjust to cut only a few thousandths of an inch if I want since I use the LS positioner along with my Jessem fence. Even when I cut only a few thousandths the blade marks are pretty bad. I even use the Jessem clear cut table saw stock guides and nothing changes. It’s probably runout like you mentioned. Is this normal with the TS 75? Do you have runout as well when you use it as a track saw? I’m just curious if anything changes.

If you are using the CMS-VL with your MFT you would love having the Incra LS positioner on there. It’s very convenient. If you are interested in getting the CS 70 LA though I have a source I can refer you to in Europe. Just PM me and I can give you my email address.

 

[DynaGlide]

Within its limits I've enjoyed owning the CMS-GE. For what it is designed to do it is great. There are times I wish I had a big fully setup Incra or Jessem table but for the reasons already mentioned in this thread, they aren't for me. I'd buy it again if I mine were to go missing. I didn't buy the CMS thinking it would do everything perfectly I've already accepted no tool is perfect out of the box and requires accessories/modifications to get the most out of it.

[2cents]

 

[DynaGlide]

If anyone is near Fredericksburg VA there's been a lady with a CMS-GE for sale for several months. Her Facebook ad says no haggling must be why it hasn't sold.

https://fredericksburg.craigslist.org/tls/d/fredericksburg-festool-cms-ge-routing/7391736122.html

 

[squall_line]

If anyone is near Fredericksburg VA there's been a lady with a CMS-GE for sale for several months. Her Facebook ad says no haggling must be why it hasn't sold.

https://fredericksburg.craigslist.org/tls/d/fredericksburg-festool-cms-ge-routing/7391736122.html

"No Haggling"

Reminds me of the old adage: "What's the cheapest thing on a BMW motorcycle?  The owner!"

That said, it's a pretty reasonable price, all things considered.

 

[FestitaMakool]

If anyone is near Fredericksburg VA there's been a lady with a CMS-GE for sale for several months. Her Facebook ad says no haggling must be why it hasn't sold.

https://fredericksburg.craigslist.org/tls/d/fredericksburg-festool-cms-ge-routing/7391736122.html

Reminds me of the old adage: "What's the cheapest thing on a BMW motorcycle?  The owner!"

Hahaha  [big grin] Haven’t heard that one before [big grin]
- I’ll tell my boss tomorrow..  [poke]

On the serious side, yes the price seems reasonable. In line with the few I’ve seen here, although there where a couple including an OF 1400 for $1000-1200.. those went within 3 min…

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

My CMS-GE arrived from Hartville. I needed to watch the Festool video to see how to assemble the extension table; otherwise assembly was straightforward following the manual.

I installed the previously-purchased JessEm Clear Cut stock guides and much prefer them to the OEM guard/featherboard arrangement which makes it hard to see the cut. I've ordered Kapex crown stops with extensions and JessEm featherboards.

Dust collection is very good so far, except when routing a groove; in that case a little sawdust shoots out the open end.

So far I'm very pleased. Thanks to all who helped me make the decision to take the plunge.

Edited to add: I just moved the table and router to a different place in the garage. Portable in theory, but for an old man with a bad back not so much. Maybe I’ll have to build a cart for it if I don’t make permanent space for it. Or rig something up to use it with a dolly.

 

[ScotF]

These are getting harder to find. I bought one from US Tool and Fastener this week and they told me this AM that they had 2 left. They actually shipped the pallet overnight air to the West Coast and hoping the local Roadrunner delivers in the next few days. That is ultra fast shipping.

I saw Beaver Tools lists it on its site as being available. Hartville has it, but at the higher price point.

 

[squall_line]

These are getting harder to find. I bought one from US Tool and Fastener this week and they told me this AM that they had 2 left. They actually shipped the pallet overnight air to the West Coast and hoping the local Roadrunner delivers in the next few days. That is ultra fast shipping.

I saw Beaver Tools lists it on its site as being available. Hartville has it, but at the higher price point.

If you buy it direct from Hartville's website, it's still normal price.  The higher price point is only on their Amazon store.

Or at least, that's how it was when I ordered from them.

 

[c_dwyer]

[member=1170]Stan Tillinghast[/member]

You mentioned that you installed the previously-purchased JessEm Clear Cut stock guides and much prefer them to the OEM guard/featherboard arrangement which makes it hard to see the cut, and ordered Kapex crown stops with extensions and JessEm featherboards.

Could you please post pictures of that setup once you have everything in place? I'm also not a big fan of the stock featherboard on the CMS, especially after inadvertently taking out a small bite of the plastic.

Thank you!

 

[squall_line]

[member=1170]Stan Tillinghast[/member]

You mentioned that you installed the previously-purchased JessEm Clear Cut stock guides and much prefer them to the OEM guard/featherboard arrangement which makes it hard to see the cut, and ordered Kapex crown stops with extensions and JessEm featherboards.

Could you please post pictures of that setup once you have everything in place? I'm also not a big fan of the stock featherboard on the CMS, especially after inadvertently taking out a small bite of the plastic.

Thank you!

[member=42263]c_dwyer[/member] , I'm pretty sure he's referring to this post:
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/...m-clear-cut-stock-guides/msg583092/#msg583092

 

[c_dwyer]

Thank you [member=75217]squall_line[/member] !