CMS Router table set.

[Rpe11]

So I've been using it for a while maybe 9 months so here's what I would change.
The back gauge should be set up like the INCRA  LS system. Other than that it is awesome  I use it all the time. It's hooked up with the OF 1400 router. This thing is easy to set up.  The dust control is over the top.

 

[es07Eric]

First off:  [welcome]

Second:  I couldn't agree with you more!  The fence is most certainly the weakest point of the CMS OF insert.  Repeat routs that require exacting or incremental adjustment are not on par with the rest of the system. 

Some, if you haven't seen already, are incorporating the Incra LS-Positioner, assuming you have a CMS-VL, this would be a great add-on if you require that type of precision.

Cheers,
Eric

 

[VW mick]

Eric

Any photos of your MFS 1000

 

[VW mick]

Sorry MFH-1000

 

[es07Eric]

Sorry MFH-1000

Eric

Any photos of your MFS 1000

Mick, actually I do  [tongue]

I'm going to try to share them by the weekend!

Cheers,
Eric

 

[RKA]

After playing with it last September at Tool Nut, including a sales pitch by fellow FOGer's I finally took the plunge back in May or June. The incra fence was the big draw so I opted for the VL set. Though I wish Festool had come up with a better fence, as long as I'm able to get one eventually, I'll be happy.

Well yesterday I finally had a task that necessitated the CMS. I needed to route a stop dado into a 3" cleat that would be used to mount a speaker on the wall in my garage. On one end is a groove that would accommodate the plastic channel running down from the ceiling. The other end has a hole drilled to allow the wire to emerge to the surface. The first pass through the router left me disappointed. There was dust everywhere!  I heard the vacuum turn on, I know the hose was clear. I turned the vacuum on manually to confirm there was suction and there was none at the table. I checked the hose, both were attached. Followed the hoses back down to the Y and found it laying on the floor!  I forgot to disconnect the kapex I had been using minutes before. Normally the kapex has a mini dedicated to it, however I brought that upstairs to deal with a drywall patch job so it completely slipped my mind to swap the vac hoses when I started the router!  Anyway, pass 2 went MUCH better!  So happy to have this tool in the shop!  Can't wait to add the LS fence!  This bump and push fence is something I would expect to find on a $150 craftsman table.

 

[NEW2FES]

Ok I have to ask what make sit better then the $150 Sears table if you think the fence is that bad? To me the fence is the most important part of a router table?

I also love Festool dust free work but i am not sure that was all that complicated of an operation and not sure where the CMS excelled at doing it?

 

[Slartibartfass]

List of reasons:

Connectivity to the MFT/3 (CMS-VL only)
Able to incorporate INCRA LS Positioner
Portability
Other inserts that you must obtain illegally in the US to use the Carvex or TS55/75 in the CMS table (voids your warranty....)

 

[RKA]

Ok I have to ask what make sit better then the $150 Sears table if you think the fence is that bad? To me the fence is the most important part of a router table?

I also love Festool dust free work but i am not sure that was all that complicated of an operation and not sure where the CMS excelled at doing it?

Sorry, I apologize for the exuberance.  I was mostly thrilled with having a router table vs. none at all, not really endorsing the CMS as an end all be all.  For me, no $150 table will have a sliding table, microadjustable infeed fence or height adjustment all of which I desired, so the $150 benchtop was not in the running.  The additional accessory to use feed stock into a bearing guided bit was nice to have.  Being able to integrate with the other Festools was important to me.  My existing 1400 slips right in, no need to spend money on another router.  Using the Kapex wings for infeed our outfeed support as needed, attaching to the MFT so I can eventually add the incra/precision fence for more repeatable work and also serving as outfeed support when crosscutting on the MFT.  All in all, I'm a happy camper (albeit a few sheckles lighter)! 

 

[bkharman]

Ok I have to ask what make sit better then the $150 Sears table if you think the fence is that bad? To me the fence is the most important part of a router table?

I also love Festool dust free work but i am not sure that was all that complicated of an operation and not sure where the CMS excelled at doing it?

So here is my $1.22 on the subject.  I did a lot of research and had a basic router bench with a Rigid router a few years back.  Through looking at the FOG and other forums, I had a design in my head of what I wanted.  Basically after looking at kits, the CMS, DIY setups and many, many pages of ideas... I came to the conclusion that I can either make EXACTLY what I want, with a lot of time and effort or I can get the CMS-VL to attach to my MFT, and really "just be done with it". 

First impressions:  I love everything about the CMS setup, except the fence.  Maybe I am being picky because of the price.  I run with my setup for a good 2 months building cope and stick 5 piece doors for my kitchen.  I had a good workflow, so that went a long way.  Now that I have a few things under my belt, the fence really starts chaffing me and so I decide that I am ready for part II of my "project".

Part dos:  I found a great deal on an LS-25 and start putting things into action.  I made a rudimentary clamp system at first involving some Festool Quick Clamps, two Qwas rail dogs, and a lot of beer.  It works fine for a bit, but I am no longer concerned with repeatability, I am now more concerned with making a solid interface between the LS and the table.

Hey Precision Dogs, how are you?:  I spoke one day with Jerry at Precision telling him how much I love his parallel guides and dogs.  I ask him if he has anything coming down the pike that would act as a better interface.  "actually I have been working on this idea to do just that"...  A few months later, I am his first customer for the Precision Plate.  I am very, very happy...

Finale (for a while):  Is my setup cheap?  No, not even close.  Does it do what I want/need?  Absolutely, I think any setup including the $150.00 Sears table "could" do what you need in 90% of cases.  Do I have a solid, repeatable, fully integrated interface for hassle free routing and maybe one day table saw and jigsaw cutting?  Yes.

Again, to me cost was a second thought with accurate, quick, repeatable, clean work being a first.

My Kit:
~ MFT/3
~ CMS-VL (with slider and dust extraction)
~ Incra LS-25 Positioner
~ Precision Plate (by Precision Dogs)
~ OF1400 in the table
~ Jessem Clear-Cut Stock guides
~ Mostly Whiteside and CMS bits (almost all of them ½")

Best of luck to whomever reads this thread, I tried to stay partial, but I really love my setup, Festool or not.

Bryan

 

[Slartibartfass]

Second the notion....

 

[Gary in Texas]

I think the CMS finds it's niche in the professional "on the job site" application.  If I were a professional requiring on the job site routing, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase the CMS.  However, as a hobbiest (with many paid commissions) doing all of my work from my studio (a.k.a. - way oversized 3 car garage), I don't need that portability.  I have two customer built router tables, one uses the Incra LS Positioner, the other has a Rockler top and fence.  I haven't checked out the CMS, but I would imagine the fence is more or less similar to the Rockler, with a locking device at each end of the fence.  Say what you will about the old tap it in or out fence, but I can set that fence up just as precise as I can my LS.  Repeatability, where the Incra excels, well, that's another matter.  Woodworkers have been tapping router fences and cabinet saw fences since day one, and you can be pretty darn precise tapping away.... [eek]
I can understand some not liking the CMS fence, but it can more than handle the job it is designed for.  If you need precision, and are "shop based", nothing can beat a well built homemade style router table.  The market is full of offerings for router lifts, precision fences, router table tops and coupled with the proper (4 inch) dust collection you can have a fantastic set up for probably about the cost of the CMS alone. 

 

[RC]

Well, the CMS router fence is a bit more irritating than locking devices at both ends since it's connected to the CMS plate with two screws in the middle on both sides of the dust port in the centre.

Also depending on how far back you need to have the fence you need to entirely unscrew the attachment screws and move them to the secondary pair of holes in the insert to move the fence back by more than a couple of centimeters from the router bit and to top it off the markings on the table are not very precise and don't help repeatable setting by tapping in any form so its trial and error every time.

Also the CMS-TS55 saw module fence is a joke (basically a shorter MFT-miter gauge) which also is a tap-n-measure set that flexes and is not end-to-end self-parallelising. Same goes for the slightly better optional CMS fence that it does not set itself parallel to your blade automatically when you clamp it down like real table saw fences do.

Compare it to my Incra LS setup and its miles ahead in the repeat ability department, stays parallel to the saw blade and just resonates with an engineer as I can set my cutting and routing like an engineer to exact measurements directly from my cut list like 321.4 mm instead of tap-measure with a tape measure - tap again - do a test cut - tap again, rince and repeat.

Also when using the LS Positioner with the CMS-TS55 inserts you can take into account the blade kerf in cutting dadoes to the 10th of a millimetre so if I need a 6mm drawer bottom dado I can dial in exactly 6mm in a blink of an eye without any trial piece cutting between fence adjustments. Just simple maths and move the fence to the ruler on it, micro adjust at 0.1mm per click if needed.

Another bonus of getting the Incra supersystem is the tall piece support fence that helps routing edges of boards vertically and a third thing are the box and dovetail joint templates for box building that you can do with the Incra that the Festool fence has nothing to compare with. It's probably not a Leigh D4R Pro replacement, but good enough for the drawer sides I build.

And finally a perspective of the 'niche' market of the CMS system - in addition to appealing to professionals on-site it also fills a nice niche for those of us who don't have large shops to have stationary equipment. I work in the backyard and store my tools under the stairs so to able to fold the whole setup away after a day of making sawdust is value in itself.

What I would like Festool to do with the CMS system is to develop more dedicated CMS-machine modules (since I already have dedicated hand tools permanently in my CMS modules anyway and crave for even more control and repeatablility) with more stationary equipment features like
- pack the Precisio CS70 pull-saw into a CMS-module with the proper cogwheel tilt control, pull-saw functionality and accurate screw-driven blade height adjustment and ideally digital gauges and adjustment motors for height and tilt adjustment
- a router module with a OF2200 powered router integrated into a module with digital height adjustment, full above table bit change without the need to reach under the table to the collet lock
- Planer/thicknesser module with digital adjustment, quiet motor, good chip collection, helical cutter heads, sturdy and micro adjustible fence, super sturdy in- and out-feed tables for planing
- Mini-bandsaw module, maybe with a folding design i.e. the 'saw tower folds into the module for transport'
- Bench drill with a similar foldable design and digitally controlled run speed (get rid of those belts please), Centrotec chucks and Kapex like tilt controls

And of course license the Incra LS-positioner fence idea and make a CMS/MFT-VL compatible version to replace the current ones

With the above modules one could have pretty much every shop machine functionality in one rack of modules + the CMS-base unit/MFT-VL + MFT/3 in the back of your car or in the closet or garage.

 

[Theshipstore]

I have to ask and already probably know, has someone mounted the Incra LS on the CMS and how easy or difficult was it to do. Is it a matter of a few holes being drilled and tapped or is there more to it.
Also the LS 17 or 25 which will work more efficiently

All of this may have been already answered somewhere else but I ask anyway

 

[bkharman]

I have to ask and already probably know, has someone mounted the Incra LS on the CMS and how easy or difficult was it to do. Is it a matter of a few holes being drilled and tapped or is there more to it.
Also the LS 17 or 25 which will work more efficiently

All of this may have been already answered somewhere else but I ask anyway

Hey Sal. I am not 100% sure someone has done it. I think some folks were toying with using the V channel along a side to connect a mounting plate (or Kapex wing) but don't recall pics. I know there was one guy who made an aluminum extrusion along a side. Let me find that in a bit.

My problem would be that in that case, an LS (even the 17) might be a big chunk of metal hanging on the edge. I am not sure it would be as effective. This is where the VL and its connectivity shine in my opinion.

Let me dig up the thread and will post.

 

[Slartibartfass]

Sal, why would u want to attach the INCRA fence directly to the CMS? U would loose all fine tuning ability because there is no space for the LS Positioner even if you push the base out beyond the table so it doesn't matter if you get the 25/17. For stationary work the CMS fence should be more than adequate. I use both with a 32 LS positioner. Malte

 

[bkharman]

Sal,

Here is the page I was referencing.  CLICK HERE

Check out page 3, the last post by Cellule.  He made an extrusion for the CMS that looks decently solid.  Might be a fit for what you are after.

I do agree with Malte, that for portability, the standard fence is probably fine for most applications.  Like I said, even the "short" LS-17 will have a lot of overhang (and useless screw lead) on that table.

It can be done... but is it a good idea?!?!  [scratch chin]

 

[Theshipstore]

I can see for sure on the VL version attached to the MFT this is awesome. but I don't have the VL, but I do have the additional side table mounted on my CMS and I feel this gives me the room needed to mount this system.

I started this question looking for advise and it seems I got some on the feasibility and usefulness of doing this
I want Thank those of you who did respond

 

[Wenyce]

Are u looking for something like this?

 

[bkharman]

Thanks for posting the pic. I referenced the post, but couldn't do to photo on my phone.

Hopefully Sal was still able to see that.

Thanks again.