Cold weather Kapex

[WarnerConstCo.]

I had to set-up in my trailer today for work.
It is nice to have room to be able to do that.
I have a 8'x20' enclosed with lights and outlets.

I had my electric space heater going but, it was still darn cold.
I think the high today was around 16 F.

On to my question/pondering.

I don't think my saw likes that cold of weather.
Everything was had to adjust, hard to turn and generally slower to operate.

Anyone else dealt with this sort of situation?
Notice any differences in your Kapex or other Festools for that matter?

 

[AlexThePalex]

I don't have a Kapex but I have the same experience with my powertools in cold weather. It's just the way metal reacts to cold, it contracts.

 

[MiterMaster]

....I don't think my saw likes that cold of weather....

In all fairness to the Kapex, cold weather is rough on all power tools.

Mike

 

[chrisrosenb]

....I don't think my saw likes that cold of weather....

In all fairness to the Kapex, cold weather is rough on all power tools.

Mike

I agree with Mike. None of my power tools like the cold & I do not either.

Chris

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I think my CT was running better than ever though.

It really wasn't too cold.  I had a sweat shirt, long sleeve t-shirt, and a t-shirt on.
Light weight gloves and I spent most of the day outside.

The sun was warm though.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

It's terrible for me to admit but I'm not an Electrical Engineer and I just don't know the answer... 

Does brushless motor technology make a difference in performance in cold temps?  Of course, this is not applicable to the Kapex but I was curious based on the conversation.  Any of you guys using the T+3 or C12 in cold temps and noticed a difference versus a brushed motor drill?  Maybe Mr. Christopherson will know the answer from a technical perspective.

I guess batteries would also be a big consideration in the cold and possibly the limiting factor.

 

[harry_]

My table saw and CSMS both fight me a little in the frigid weather. the cold makes the grease get hard and everything gets stiffer as a result.

Can't speak for the Kapex,..... maybe next month,.... maybe

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Shane-

I think the better efficiency of the brushless motor won't hurt anything, I am sure it helps.

Big thing is battery's.  I have not found a lithium battery that lasts outside.  They die overnight.

Nicad's do a great job, I think the cold weather reduces my battery life by 25%.  With my C12. 

Just a guess but, seems right.

 

[spikfot]

Iv'e taken to carrying my lithiums in the cab of my truck to keep them warm to keep them working longer, and don't leave them in my shell at night. Also agree on the NiCads, much better for winter work.
Then again I've scraped the INSIDE of my truck windows of ice daily for the past 3 weeks, that is when I'm too lazy to plug the heater in.

 

[TOOLMAN169]

[scared]Well I just purchased my new kapex. I am a little worried about both heat and cold on this saw. I have a small shop behind my house that is bricked on the outside and insulated and drywalled on the inside. But the ceiling is exposed. I heat with a Mr heater propane unit and it does find. I use a fan and open the doors in the summer. I am not sure how hot it gets  inside during the summer when I am gone.

 

[Frank Pellow]

I frequently use my TS 75  circular saw in temperatures below freezing and I once used it for about half an hour at -30 Celsius.  I don't leave the saw out in these temperatures for any longer than an hour.  I have not noticed any problems (other than problems with me [unsure]) when using the saw in these temperatures.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

All my stuff stays in my trailer or stacked in the garage.

I don't keep anything heated/cooled year round.

The slides were the stiffest part, and the table was stiffer.

Saw worked great, just had to pay attention to it because it was operating slower than I was (at least at the beginning of the day)

 

[honeydoman]

warner,  I had the same thing happen on sunday finishing a trim job.. and it was 16 in the peoples garage and yes my turntable was a little stiff and my pasloades guns had to be warmed up over there gas stove.... I did it safely!  had to take gas cartige out and warm it up then fine.

but as shane said cold weather sucks... even I work slower and my bones are slower to move also!

this job I am doing now building some bookcase I have a heater in their garage and it is also warming up a bit here in north carolina... but it was fine yesterday.

 

[Texastutt]

Does brushless motor technology make a difference in performance in cold temps?  Of course, this is not applicable to the Kapex but I was curious based on the conversation.  Any of you guys using the T+3 or C12 in cold temps and noticed a difference versus a brushed motor drill?  Maybe Mr. Christopherson will know the answer from a technical perspective.

I know that my C12 works better and longer than my Panasonic in the cold... I think that Panasonic makes Festool batteries...?

Makes one want to go buy one of those supper dupper kerosene heaters

 

[Jerry Work]

Food for thought....

A gallon of propane contains 98,000 BTUs and the small torpedo type propane heaters put out around 30,000 to 40,000 BTUs so a 5 gal standard BBQ tank will last 12 to 15 hours.  Be sure to check the size of the opening in the fitting that attaches to the heater.  Some of the cheaper ones are very restricted at that point and won't actually put out more than about 10,000 BTUs no matter what the machine says.  A properly sized hose, regulator and fittings will make those little things really throw out a lot of useable heat.  Since they are fan forced air they distribute the heat well.  Might be a good temporary solution in some cases.  It is for my unheated, uninsulated garage that holds my small motor coach.  It can go to freeze your fingers cold to workable in about 30 minutes.  After an hour I have to turn it off as it is too hot inside.

For reference, most small electric heaters you see are 1500 watt units (12 amps at 120 volts).  1,000 watts produces 3,413 BTUs so a 1500 watt unit will put out 5,199 BTUs no matter what the technology.  Pay no attention to claims of "heating the whole house" or "made by the Amish so they must be good" as that is just hog wash.  Even if you could find one with a cord and plug suitable for 15 amps at 120v (1800 watts) it would only put out 6,140 BTUs.  The largest of the 220 units normally available to home owners draws 30 amps (6.6 kw) so it can put out 22,550 BTUs.  That may be ok for some permanent installations if you have 220 volts available, but it is still less than the heat from one quarter of a gallon of propane and depending on the cost of electricity and propane where you live could cost about the same or as much as twice as much for the electric unit.  98,000 BTUs in one gallon of propane costs around $2.50 here which means about $02.5 per 1000 BTUs.  Electricity is generally around $.08 to $.16 per KWH or $.024 to .048 per 1000 BTUs.

Jerry

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I have a systainer (used to be a bucket) that I take in the house every night.

I have stuff that can't freeze in it.  Caulk, glue, putty, paslode gas, things like that.

I have 2 propane heaters, both with fans.  I think they are ready dragon's.
The problem I have with them, is that they smell horrible, you need some sort of open window.

I was set-up and working inside my enclosed trailer, the electric heater was for my feet.  Not that they get cold, I was trying to keep the snow off of them
and keep them dry.  You know how much time it wastes changing shoes walking in and out of someone's house.

 

[jvsteenb]

Personally I wouldn't dream of heating my workshop with a propane heater - not that I have anything against propane, mind you - but they don't just put out a lot of heat, but they put out a lot of moisture as well, and a good deal of the efficient heating goes down the drain because you have to have massive ventilation in order to operate them safely.
They're quick, and put out a lot of heat, but remember that any burning of hydrocarbons renders at least two combustion products: CO2 and H2O - nothing to be done about it.  The wild moisture swings tend to leave condensation on any surface that doesn't heat up too quickly ( think cast iron like for instance your tablesaw - or any cold metal objects for that matter like your plane irons, chisels, need I go on? ) and gets unfinished woods to absorb much more moisture then they would in an unheated shop.
So by all means: heat your shop, but just make sure that the combustion air is somehow brought in from the outside and ESPECIALLY that the exhaust gases aren't allowed to enter your shop.

Just my 2 Eurocents...

Regards,

Job

 

[spikfot]

Personally I wouldn't dream of heating my workshop with a propane heater - not that I have anything against propane, mind you - but they don't just put out a lot of heat, but they put out a lot of moisture as well, and a good deal of the efficient heating goes down the drain because you have to have massive ventilation in order to operate them safely.
They're quick, and put out a lot of heat, but remember that any burning of hydrocarbons renders at least two combustion products: CO2 and H2O - nothing to be done about it.  The wild moisture swings tend to leave condensation on any surface that doesn't heat up too quickly ( think cast iron like for instance your tablesaw - or any cold metal objects for that matter like your plane irons, chisels, need I go on? ) and gets unfinished woods to absorb much more moisture then they would in an unheated shop.
So by all means: heat your shop, but just make sure that the combustion air is somehow brought in from the outside and ESPECIALLY that the exhaust gases aren't allowed to enter your shop.

Just my 2 Eurocents...

Regards,

Job

[/quote)

Also CO- carbon monoxide, which can be deadly.  I saw a whole crew go down on a jobsite because of a propane space heater, a house full of confused, pissed-off carpenters with nasty headaches will ruin your day.
I'm staying with my 220v heaters, they take longer to be effective, but the reduction in risk/liability for explosions, fires, exhausting, etc. is the deciding factor.

 

[spikfot]

I'm not sure why my comments stay inside the quote box nowadays.
Maybe there should be a separate thread for "cold weather carpentry"? I don't mean to contribute to derailing the topic more than I already have.
"Eurocents" that cracked me up Job...

 

[tbellemare]

For shops, there are some good solutions out there that use natural gas or propane properly.

This one hangs from the ceiling or top of the shop so it is out of the way. It also can be set up to use outside air for combustion and exhaust outside. It isn't very practical for a jobsite but in a fixed shop, this sort of solution can be quite nice. Think of the tank top heaters without the smell or gas plus, out of the way.

Tom