Connecting guide rails together - How straight

How straight is connecting multiple guide rails together?

  • true ?

    Votes: 10 62.5%
  • not true?

    Votes: 6 37.5%

  • Total voters
    16
This problem is one reason I'm considering Mafell guide rails.  The Mafell Rail connects entirely differently....it uses a laser-cut piece of steel that has tensioners on one side.  When put in the rail the tensioner screws put pressure against one side of the rail housing ensuring a strait joint.

I've talked with users in the UK and all have said theres no need to use a strait edge for alignment with this design.

http://www.dm-tools.co.uk/extraimages/Mafell_Guide_Rail.jpg

 
bwiele said:
Other, more experienced people will comment or confirm, but at the Festool class I went to in Indiana the recommended process is to put the connectors in the rails, don't butt the ends of the rails together (they are NOT guaranteed to be square cut), bridge the TS55 across the gap between the rails and tighten the tracking knobs.  Then tighten the rail connector screws that you can access from the top, remove the saw and tighten the screws from underneath.  Double check your alignment with a straight edge.

Hope that helps.

Thats how we were instructed in LV
 
I leave the connecting rods permanently attached to one of my rails to make the whole process quicker.  I stand the 1400 rail with permanent rods up strait, then lower the other 1400 rail on to the top.  The two edges are square, so when the ends butt, just tighten the set screws and you are good to go.  By doing it vertically you can tighten the front and back set screws without having to flip the rails. 

I have done this at least 50 times in the last 4-5 months and have had no issues. 
 
Jalvis said:
This problem is one reason I'm considering Mafell guide rails.  The Mafell Rail connects entirely differently....it uses a laser-cut piece of steel that has tensioners on one side.  When put in the rail the tensioner screws put pressure against one side of the rail housing ensuring a strait joint.

I've talked with users in the UK and all have said theres no need to use a strait edge for alignment with this design.

This reminds me of a solution that I had thought of some time back.  If I were using joined rails and had problems with them staying in alignment I would make a spline to fix across where the two rails were joined.  I would make this spline out of a piece of 3/4" ply, a piece several feet long and maybe 4" or so in width.  Route a rebate along the long edge that would but up against the back edge of the guide rails -- rebate to a depth where the remaining thickness matches the height of the rear of the guide rail's T-track.  Now fix a strip to the top of the rebate that hangs over the spline and, when but up to the back of the guide rail will cover the T-track area.  Drill holes for mounting hardware that attaches the spline to the guide rails' T-tracks.  This spline would be used in place of the guide rail connector that you would otherwise install in the guide rails' upper T-tracks.  Lastly, before I installed the top strip to the spline, I would drill or cut out some inspection holes that allow you to see that the back edge of the guide rail is in full contact with the edge of the spline.  

Just an idea that I had not tried...
 
mylcs143 said:
Hi All,
First time poster and I have never used the guide rail system.
I am looking to rip some long 1 7/8" mahogany (up to 8' long).  I can invasion that the single 106" long guide rail would be as straight as a laser but my question is if I connect 2 55" guide rails together with the guide rail connector is this really as straight?  Will there be any play or movement at this connection point.  I will be using a TS55 to cut this and I need this to be a clean and straight cut.  It does not have to be a glue line type cut but fairly close to it.

Thanks in advance

John

Hi John,
[welcome]  to The FOG.

You ask an important question. Already many experts have provided a variety of answers.

From early 2006 until I finally bought a pick-up truck with a lumber rack, I used a set of three 55" rails. I would use one as a straightedge to ensure the other two were connected appropriately. My primary Festool dealer had been a leading figure in the Los Angeles furniture crafting community for decades. He suggested I buy the three rails with my first TS55, since I had told him I did not own a truck and wanted my Festools to be easily portable. To this day, when I must be on a site with difficult access, I use my three rail method. BTW, I like having that third guide rail for the cross cuts. Never in all these years did I have a problem with my connected guide rail staying straight. Generally I clamp my guide rails and always do so with any rip over 48", with a 3000mm rail or a connected pair.

Like others I have been proud to participate in many Festool End User training classes conducted by Steve Bace and Brian "The Sedge" Sedgeley. In fact I was a member of the first class opening the Henderson, NV location. That was a cabinet construction class, and rails from 42" (1080mm) to 5000mm were available for our use. During a break we had a lively discussion about ways to connect rails. The use of the TS55 saw as a fixture was demonstrated. I demonstrated my 3 rail approach, referencing the side away from the splinter guard. I explained that I did not want to be constantly changing the setting of the cams in the slot of my TS55 as needed to use the saw as a fixture,

Now John, I am sure you have read the replies mentioning that the wood plank will likely twist and bow as a result of being ripped. It does not matter how you make such a rip, tension in the wood is released. That causes all kinds of results. Personally I long ago found I was better off ripping solid lumber using a larger table saw, but I also always make my rips at least a day before I will be assembling that job. Often I run the ripped edge through a jointer shortly after making the rip. Then the next day I evaluate the straightness of the edge. Perhaps it will need another rip pass, but often all it needs is another pass through the jointer. Usually the first rip releases enough tension in the wood that on the second day it is safe to rip the other edge and joint that. Still, when making a long glue-up, perhaps for a table, I schedule an extra day just in case not all the tension was released.

Can we assume your lumber is 1 7/8" thick? You did not say the width of those planks. Has all your lumber been jointed on one face to render it flat and then run through a thickness planer to ensure it is uniform? I ask, because these days it is rare to have available planks that thick which are wide enough to support a Festool guide rail without using another piece of the same material. Where ripping with a track saw is not ideal is finding a way to clamp the rail to the piece being ripped.

When you read discussion of the TS55 and the TS75, the consensus is that the 50mm depth of cut with a TS55 on a guide rail is marginal for ripping 1 7/8" thick lumber. For best results when ripping such material it is best to have a larger enough blade a full gullet is available beneath the work. This is a job for the TS75 in my experience.

You will also want to use a blade designed for ripping. If I were attempting to do the rips you mention, I would be using a Panther blade: cat 496 305 for the TS55; cat 495 378 for the TS75. Panther blades provide about as good a cut edge ripping solid lumber as possible.

Probably you noticed I use both a jointer (the way I prefer to spell the word) and a thickness planer. Both of mine are 20" wide, because I use my jointer to flatten the first face of a plank. Only when that face is flat do I bring the plank to uniform thickness. Those are hardly machines normally moved to sites. Mine have 480v 3 phase motors. Consequently they are installed in my shop, convenient to a long sliding table saw with a 550mm maximum blade. My experience is a really good way to make the clean-up rip in solid lumber is to clamp the biggest part to the sliding table.

Virtually all the solid lumber I use comes to my shop as raw planks and sometimes logs. I have a 40hp Baker horizontal band re-saw with a powered conveyor belt which can conveniently reduce logs as big as 24" dia to planks of the thickness I desire. The advantage of a band re-saw is that the kerf is only 1.5mm, while a typical 550mm circular saw blade is 5+mm kerf.

Festool track saws are marvelous, but as fantastic as they are, track saws are simply not appropriately efficient for jobs better done on a re-saw and sliding table saw,
 
I've been using joined guide rails daily, onsite, for at least 5-6 years now.  I routinely cut 8' prefinished panels on cabinet installs.  No room for error.

Very early on I realized that leaving a gap between two rails and then using a straight edge the true up the rail was labor intensive.  I decided to just square cut the ends of all my rails.  ( Rick was a bit more eloquent in describing it as calibrating the ends of the rails).

The end result is that now I butt the ends of two rails tightly, secure the rails, and I'm good to go.  If the ends of the rails are at a true square, then the rail must be straight...

Another poster expressed concern about the rails coming out of alignment due to handling. I've never had that problem, but I do occasionally take a look at the butt joint during use to be sure I don't see any gaps.

Dan
 
I join a set of guide rails frequently. After the first 2-3 times of doing it to figure out the process that works best for me, it now takes me about 30 to 45 seconds to put the connectors in and align the rails, and another 30 seconds to confirm that they're co-linear. Before I would trust the system, I set it up and broke it down a bunch of times. My worst measured deviation from straight so far as been 0.002" with the worst obviously being right at the join. I have not yet banged them around hard enough to knock them out of co-linear once I got them set. Then again, working with anything that thin and bendy and 3.3m long tends to make me quite cautious so I'm treating them pretty well. However, I'd treat a single 3m rail just as delicately.
 
Just out of curiosity - is the 2700mm rail sufficient to rip 4x8 plywood?  Or would I need to use the 3000mm?  Ordering online seems like it could be dangerous because they have to ship an (almost) 9' long piece of relatively flimsy aluminum.
 
ctfeet said:
Just out of curiosity - is the 2700mm rail sufficient to rip 4x8 plywood?  Or would I need to use the 3000mm?  Ordering online seems like it could be dangerous because they have to ship an (almost) 9' long piece of relatively flimsy aluminum.

The 2700 rail is still 10" longer than the sheet, so yes, it can be used for ripping a 4x8 sheet. There is not a lot of leeway in the length, so you do have to carefully position the rail for proper overlap at the beginning and end. If you use the rail in this manner frequently, a simple trick to help in positioning would be to put a small bolt in the underside T-track to act as a position stop against either the leading or trailing edge of the sheet.
 
ctfeet said:
Just out of curiosity - is the 2700mm rail sufficient to rip 4x8 plywood?  Or would I need to use the 3000mm?  Ordering online seems like it could be dangerous because they have to ship an (almost) 9' long piece of relatively flimsy aluminum.

I ordered a 3000mm from Bob, shipped fine.
 
ctfeet said:
Just out of curiosity - is the 2700mm rail sufficient to rip 4x8 plywood?  Or would I need to use the 3000mm?  Ordering online seems like it could be dangerous because they have to ship an (almost) 9' long piece of relatively flimsy aluminum.

Festool packs the longer guide rails, including the 2700mm, in sturdy purpose-built crates. All of the many rails I own were purchased from my primary local dealer. I have seen pallets of stuff from Festool at my dealer waiting being inventoried, but those are not long enough to contain even the 1900mm rails. I have been told that Festool bundles several longer rails for shipment, so the combined crates support one another.

I do own a 27oomm rail, because that is the longest which will effectively fit in the smaller shop room at my condo. Yes, with some practice the 2700mm rail is just barely long enough to rip 8' so long as you use a TS55. The base of the TS75 is enough longer that you need nearly all of the 3000mm rail to make the same cut.

Personally I had to wait until early 2009, when I bought a pick-up truck with a lumber rack, before I could transport long rails. Knowing in my larger condo work room I had space for a 3000mm rail, I bought that the same day as my 2700mm rail.

Previously I had bought the 95" 2424mm "Holy" rail, which could be squeezed into my Grand Am, unfortunately without its Festool crate. We discovered this the day in 2006 I bought it. My dealer saved the crate for me so the following day a good friend with a pick-up could bring the crate to my condo. Bummer that the 95" Holy rail is 11" too short to be useful ripping 8'  There must be a valid reason why the 3000mm rail is not offered with the milled holes to register the holes spaced 32mm. It could be that the LR32 holes are made on a jig borer of milling machine unable to hold a longer rail. These days that should not be a problem. My own Weeke CNC nested routers can handle 5' x 12' sheets. I do not allow any metal working in my wood shop, where those Weeke CNC routers are located because I do not want metal chips there. However, several of my friends in the metal working business use the same model Weeke CNC routers effectively. Compared to modern metal production CNC machines, the Weeke are inexpensive and yet very reliable.
 
I remember reading a thread about trimming the edges of the guide rails on a Kapex to ensure they were square.
Which sounds like a good idea if one owns a Kapex.

Is this a good idea Rick? 
Jon
 
It's not a matter of whether you own a Kapex or not, but how accurately you could make the cut. The accuracy of the trimming cut needs to be proportional to ratio between the width of the rail to the length of the rail. The longer the rail, the more critical the accuracy of the cut must be. It is not a matter of making a 30-second cut and calling it good. It's a calibration process that could require a tolerance (depending on personal preference) down to a couple thousandths of a degree.

On the other hand, as long as you used the same accurate saw t cut all of your rail's right and left ends, then it is less critical that they are exact, as long as they are consistent. One error would cancel the other.
 
Jon, that may have been me.  I've posted a couple of times about butting the rails for assembly.  It seems to me that any chop saw that is accurate enough for the kind of work we do is accurate enough to square up the ends of the rails.  It may be true that the rails could possibly be out a couple thousands of an inch, but we're not machining parts, we're cutting wood panels, butting them to other wood panels, out of square cabinets, and out of plumb walls.  Heck, I don't know, but I'd bet that my tape measure and corresponding pencil line may be off a few thousands of an inch from mark to mark sometimes.

Sure, if I could, I'd have a long rail for site work, but I don't think I'm giving up any real world accuracy with properly butted short rails.  I'll take mobility this time.

Dan
 
Rick Christopherson said:
ctfeet said:
Just out of curiosity - is the 2700mm rail sufficient to rip 4x8 plywood?  Or would I need to use the 3000mm?  Ordering online seems like it could be dangerous because they have to ship an (almost) 9' long piece of relatively flimsy aluminum.

The 2700 rail is still 10" longer than the sheet, so yes, it can be used for ripping a 4x8 sheet. There is not a lot of leeway in the length, so you do have to carefully position the rail for proper overlap at the beginning and end. If you use the rail in this manner frequently, a simple trick to help in positioning would be to put a small bolt in the underside T-track to act as a position stop against either the leading or trailing edge of the sheet.

I just drew a line on mine with a sharpie  [poke]
 
You also need to think about the longest diagonal you might want to cut on a sheet of ply, plus someday having the 75 rather than the 55. IIRC, when I calculated it, that meant you needed 2900mm.
 
With the longer rails I always clamp the rails. Therefore using a bolt on the underside will not work for me. I have long advocated the line drawn with a Sharpie.

For me the 3000mm rail is not long enough, even with the TS55, because we use so much 4' x 10' material. Normally if all the corners are right angles I use my beam saw, with its 14' capacity.

It is diagonals and miters for which I use a large cutting table and rails. The next longer than the 3000mm rail is 5000mm. To store it safely and conveniently the cutting table is 19' long.
 
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