Consolidated Q&A for Planex and CT AutoClean

[monte]

Hi Shane,

Thanks for posting this convenient thread.  

I am a general contractor working on mainly bathrooms and kitchens, so the areas of drywall that I install/repair are usually fairly small.  I already have a CT33 (pre-RRP requirements) and a CT26 along with a Rigid and Dewalt, so I am kind of reluctant to buy another $750 vacuum.  Here are some questions that will help me make a decision.

1) For occasionally sanding a typical bathroom or kitchen amount of drywall, could I expect good results using my CT26?

2) If I added something like the Oneida Ultimate Cyclone for the Festool vacs (something that I would also benefit from when making cabinets), could I expect good results using the CT26?

3) If I was able to sell the 33 or 26 and then put the CT AC to use in the shop, when it wasn't being used for drywall duty, could I expect good results from the CT AC (without a bag) for collecting wood dust from routers, sanders and saws.  In other words, without a bag, would that blowback action clear the wood dust collecting on the elements as effectively as the video shows it working for drywall dust.

I do all of the trades for my remodeling projects and the way that I do drywall, there isn't a whole lot of sanding that ends up being needed, but even so, there is enough to require tarps (that need washing) and vacuuming and the protective gear and clothing (that needs washing) and the dust from my shoes and clothes that gets into my truck (that needs eventual cleaning).  I'm seriously considering getting just the Planex to try and eliminate even that small amount of dust since it ends up requiring quite a bit of extra effort to clean up.  

If it won't disappoint me while using it with just the CT26, then I will probably give it a try, but if I have to buy another expensive vacuum, then I'll have to think about it reallllllly hard!

Thanks Shane!

Roland

Roland,

To answer number two regarding the Ultimate Dust Deputy I may be helpful in a round about way.
I'm presently working on a remodel where I've had to cut concrete with my Hilti Diamond saw and drill out 1 1/2" holes in sandstone and vac out the holes.
I didn't want to spend $900 plus on a Hilti vac especially designed to vacuum concrete dust because it has a stirrer that stirs the contents every 15 seconds to eliminate caking.
I have several ct's and my older ct33 is relegated to demo work, (I didn't want to beat up my ct36's with demo work) I knew that if I used that one directly I would have bag blowout almost every time, especially due to the weight of the rock dust. So I ordered the Ultimate Dust Deputy and I couldn't be happier. When using the Ultimate DD I consider when it fills to 2/3's as full as I don't want any bypass filling my ct33 - at 2/3's full the Ultimate DD caught about 70 lbs of rock dust! With a miniscule amount going into the CT. I'm so thrilled with the Ultimate DD that I ordered another one for the sanding room of my workshop. I have no doubt that one would have similar results with drywall dust, with the benefit of a Hepa Filter to boot.

cheers,
Roger

 

[monte]

Shane,

On the Ct AutoClean where you connect the hose to the vac there is what appears to be an internal hose gate with an animation of it on the second video.
Will that also be available as an option for the Ct33? It seems very nifty.

cheers,
Roger

 

[semenza]

Checked out the PLanex and AutoClean 36 at my brick and mortar dealer today.  No drywall to try it on, but it seems very nice.  It had a good feel.  The sectional breakdown of the "tubes" looked  good too.

Will the CT Planex "caddy" that mounts to the top of the CT be available?  That wasn't on display and I forgot to ask.

Is the Planex delivered in a the Maxi Sys. for NA?

Seth

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Seth, the CT mount (caddy) is available so check with your dealer. And, yes it does come on the Maxi as does the harness.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Shane,

On the Ct AutoClean where you connect the hose to the vac there is what appears to be an internal hose gate with an animation of it on the second video.
Will that also be available as an option for the Ct33? It seems very nifty.

Sorry I missed seeing this, Roger. Yes, it's the blast gate and will work with any of our CTs.

 

[BlueRidgeWoodworksLLC]

I've read that the Planex can be used for removing wall paper, but I'm wondering if it would work knocking down ceiling texture.  Like the popcorn type that would usually get scraped off with water and a drywall knife.  If it is possible, what grit would you suggest.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I've read that the Planex can be used for removing wall paper, but I'm wondering if it would work knocking down ceiling texture.  Like the popcorn type that would usually get scraped off with water and a drywall knife.  If it is possible, what grit would you suggest.

Yes, it can be used for knocking down popcorn or texture on a ceiling. I would recommend 80 or 100 grit. The Planex has two dust extraction options which are selected with a switch on the head: inside the pad or outside the pad. You will want to select outside the pad for this application. Generally, you will select inside the pad for other applications, like drywall sanding. Using extraction on the outside of the pad is best suited when you're creating larger debris rather than fine dust.

 

[Cableaddict]

3) Yes, you should see the same great dust extraction for non-drywall applications with the CT AC as you would with our other CT models. The filtration level on the CT AC, with its supplied filter, would be 1 micron at 99.9% versus HEPA which is 0.3 micron at 99.997%. The AutoClean functionality should keep the filter free of debris and dust even with wood dust. However, it would be somewhat counterproductive to run it without a bag in my opinion, from a disposal perspective. You could use the same filter bags for the CT 36 with CT AC and run it with a bag if you chose and saw the benefit. Running without the bag would probably mean you would need to replace the high-performance filter in the CT AC more frequently than without.

Hey, Shane.  A few questions regarding this:

1:  How does the blow back function work if you use a bag?  Wouldn't it just put the fine dust back into the tub, where it would immediately get sucked BACK into the filter? 

2:  You wrote,  "we have found drywall dust to be (apparently) smaller than 5 microns allowing some dust to pass through the filter bag and into the "tub" and to the main filter...." 
- I agree this happens with drywall / plaster dust. AFAIK, there is now wood dust smaller than 5 microns, so I see no benefit from this system for wood-only applications.  Am I wrong?

3:  I am considering upgrading to a CT36 AC (I currently have the RPP-HEPA CT36) and only using a plastic bag for those rare times that I sand / clean up drywall.  EXCEPT:  Would the "blow back" function work with the RPP-HEPA filter, or would I have to remember to swap-in the 1 micron HP filter when using blow back?

4:  If one installs the new blast gate on an existing CT36, will it reduce suction at all? (Has Festool tested this with actual cfm & water lift numbers?  This is important to me, as I use my CT36 for routing & also general cleanup, where every bit of suction counts.

-thanks.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

1:  How does the blow back function work if you use a bag?  Wouldn't it just put the fine dust back into the tub, where it would immediately get sucked BACK into the filter?   

You would not use the AutoClean feature with a bag installed. It won't work. The filter bag gets sucked up against the filter essentially. So, there's nowhere for the dust to go if the AutoClean actuates, it would fall on the bag and go right back into the fitler, just like you said.

2:  You wrote,  "we have found drywall dust to be (apparently) smaller than 5 microns allowing some dust to pass through the filter bag and into the "tub" and to the main filter...." 
- I agree this happens with drywall / plaster dust. AFAIK, there is now wood dust smaller than 5 microns, so I see no benefit from this system for wood-only applications.  Am I wrong?

Wood dust is generally larger than 5 microns. Wood SMOKE can be smaller than 5 microns. There's no particular advantage for wood applications. However, there is the possibility of using the CT AutoClean for drywall sanding and woodworking. Whereas, I wouldn't recommend the non-AutoClean units for drywall sanding if you're doing a lot of it.

3:  I am considering upgrading to a CT36 AC (I currently have the RPP-HEPA CT36) and only using a plastic bag for those rare times that I sand / clean up drywall.  EXCEPT:  Would the "blow back" function work with the RPP-HEPA filter, or would I have to remember to swap-in the 1 micron HP filter when using blow back?

The CT AutoClean is not designed or tested for RRP applications and should not be used for those tasks. If you're just wanting to use a HEPA filter and it's not for RRP, then you can do so. It's the same filter as the other CT 26/36/48 units that would fit in the CT AutoClean. I would not recommend using the AutoClean functionality with a HEPA filter but rather swap filters.

4:  If one installs the new blast gate on an existing CT36, will it reduce suction at all? (Has Festool tested this with actual cfm & water lift numbers?  This is important to me, as I use my CT36 for routing & also general cleanup, where every bit of suction counts.

I don't have any scientific data to support it, but I don't believe suction would be reduced. I can't say definitively because I haven't used one since we don't have them yet. They are expected later in the month.

Shane

 

[Cableaddict]

Thanks!

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Quick follow up... I'm not in the office today but a colleague just confirmed that we received some of the blast gates and had a look at them. As long as you don't close it, there's no drop in CFM as I suspected.

Glad to help.

 

[Brian.ca]

Hi Shane, I had a few questions from the perspective of someone looking to try the planex under the 30 day guarantee

1)  What comes with the tool package?  In particular, b/c I heard it improves usability greatly, does an interface pad come with it?  How about any sample abrasives?
2)  B/c I'm mostly looking to just try it at the moment I'd probably just use it with my CT33 + dust deputy.  Could you edit in the part # and price (USD/CAD) of the planex hose into the original post since that seems like a required item (at least in my case).
3) What abrasives would you recommend as a good starting point?
4) How do consumables work under the 30 day guarantee?  I would assume you can't return an opened & incomplete box of sandpaper but if the tool comes with a sample pack I would figure using those shouldn't be an issue?

Thanks

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Brian, sorry for the delay getting back to you on this. See my responses below, let me know if you still have any questions. Thanks.

1)  What comes with the tool package?   In particular, b/c I heard it improves usability greatly, does an interface pad come with it?  How about any sample abrasives?

It does not include the interface pad (#496140, $40 USD/$46.20 CDN), which is optional and sold separately. I also don't believe that it comes with any sample abrasives, but I'd have to check to confirm or maybe one of our dealers on the forum can check for us.

2)  B/c I'm mostly looking to just try it at the moment I'd probably just use it with my CT33 + dust deputy.   Could you edit in the part # and price (USD/CAD) of the planex hose into the original post since that seems like a required item (at least in my case).

To clarify, you can use a standard hose but it will not have a positive locking mechanism with the Planex and could pull loose with a lot of movement. The Planex-specific hose is #496972, $150 USD/$173.30 CDN.

3) What abrasives would you recommend as a good starting point?

For general drywall sanding, I would say that 150 grit would be a good start. The Planex can remove drywall compound pretty rapidly, so go with a grit that's a step or two higher that would you might think you'd use. If you have stuff that's pretty rough, also add 100 grit.

4) How do consumables work under the 30 day guarantee?  I would assume you can't return an opened & incomplete box of sandpaper but if the tool comes with a sample pack I would figure using those shouldn't be an issue?

Only the tool is covered by the 30 day guarantee. Accessories, like the interface pad, and consumables would not be covered and are not returnable unless your dealer offers a return policy beyond Festool's 30 day guarantee.

 

[woodworldchicago]

Sample abrasive with the Planex: the ones I have in stock came with a sheet of 150 grit Brilliant.

Chip

 

[tbellemare]

'Same here, Chip.

Tom

 

[Dogwood]

Hi there,

Longtime lurker here and fairly new festool owner. First of all thanks for all the great info guys!

Guess I'm getting a bit of extractor overload, I have a few questions for anybody wiling:

1. Does the CT AC simply blast air back through the filter to clear it?
2. What does the blast gate do then, or why would you want it other than containing dust when removing the hose?
3. If the filter is kept relatively clean why does it not still use a hepa filter? I realize it is not intended for RPP etc. but why go down in filter quality?
4. If a plastic bag can be used how does it keep from being sucked up into the filter?

Thanks for any help, I am asking with concrete dust collection in mind. I will be doing a bunch of floor grinding and had originally planned on using my Midi and buying a Dust Deputy to collect the bulk of it but then the CT AC came out and I was curious if it was better instead (and also good for using on the job site with tools that create lots of bulk dust such as a table saw and router without the bulk of the Dust Deputy)

I've seen that Makita has a new vac aimed at concrete which appears to be a rebranded Nilfisk, Hilti has one, and Pulsebac is another brand that specializes in them (BTW they have a cool video with a plexi sided vac and you see the "pulsing" of the filters, pretty cool!) anyways do they all use the same technology of blowing air back through the filters? in which case should I get the CT AC for the jobs mentioned?

Thanks again and sorry for the length-my minds reeling I have to pull the trigger on something!  [unsure]

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Hello and welcome to the forum. Here are the answers to your questions.

1. Does the CT AC simply blast air back through the filter to clear it?

No. A valve opens and closes to quickly create differential pressure. There is no "blast of air" or something blowing air through the filter.

2. What does the blast gate do then, or why would you want it other than containing dust when removing the hose?

Closing the blast gate while the AutoClean cycles will give the filter a more robust cleaning. You can actually see the sides of the tub get bow under the pressure it's so strong. Also, like you stated, it prevents spilling during transport.

3. If the filter is kept relatively clean why does it not still use a hepa filter? I realize it is not intended for RPP etc. but why go down in filter quality?

In the first post in this thread you can see a HEPA filter and the High-Performance filter than comes standard on the CT AC side by side. The HEPA filter is very rigid and has far more pleats which would trap the fine drywall dust. The High-Performence filter is still 1 micron, versus 0.3 micron on the HEPA filter. So, we're not talking about a dramatic difference in filtration levels.

4. If a plastic bag can be used how does it keep from being sucked up into the filter?

I'm no engineer and don't have a degree in fluid dynamics, so I can't give a technical explanation. I suspect it has something to do with a vortex that's created. The flow of air is from the inlet where the hose attaches straight up into the filter. So, the majority of the tub is unaffected by that suction. What particles do hit the filter are released during the AutoClean cycle.

Thanks for any help, I am asking with concrete dust collection in mind.

Festool does not recommend using our CT dust extractors for hazardous materials, including concrete dust as stated in the manual. You should always use proper safety equipment including a respirator when working with such materials. There is a risk of particles not trapped by the filter being reintroduced into the environment.

 

[score0matic]

Ok back when I was doing drywall,  Columbia auto tools rock  [big grin]- I had the PC.  I kept it even after i sold off the rest of the professional tools.  I have alot of experience with the PC - even to the point of putting 36  grit floor pads on it to deal with painted textured ceilings that owners wanted lvl 5 flat.  So i feel the need to address several "advantages" of the planax that aren't. 
- A robust, sealed 2-speed gear box instead of their cable drive which is more likely to fail over time. The PC's cable can and occasionally does go out but it is a $27.00 replacement part that can be repaired in the field in under 15 min.  I am willing to bet the price of a Planex that its gear box will not out last the life of 2 PC's  let alone the advantage of 2 PC's if your crew has never went auto before

- Switches and dials that are large and all within reach while operating the machine, right at your fingertips.  The PC switch and speed control are also right at your finger tips

- MUCH, MUCH less expensive abrasives lowering total cost of ownership While it is true that PC paper is expensive-- i dont know of anyone who actually uses the paper- I am sure there are some weekend warriors who might  but---
This is from All Wall equipment-- Level 360 Sanding Discs 360 & PC7800 (25 Pack)Price 1 – 3 $21.99  This brings the Actual price In line with Planex or just below it. 

- A removable brush around the pad that can let you get right against adjacent surfaces.  This is not a feature [blink] this is BAD as it will get lost and then the vac efficiency will go down until you buy a replacement

- A rubber handle, theirs is plastic and gets quite slippery when you have dust on your hands  This one is sort of funny as after a couple months of production use it will look like the rubber portion of my RO 150 or it will be gouged, hardened or completely coated with drywall mud and wont make much of a difference anyway

The above comments are directed to those who looking at the Planex as a Production tool -- not as a Festoy to take out of the systainer once a year to freshen a wall before it gets repainted or as part of a contractors  "dog and pony show"

"The Dog and Pony show" element is a Huge Positive Feature for the small high end contractor who is aware that his customer is buying an "experience" as much as a finished product.  having a demonstrable edge like a dustless drywall sander that you can bring to the presentation in its special box  may Get you the Job at your bid price [wink] this alone should make the tool pay for it self in a year.

Now I really like the ability to shorten/lengthen it.  That is a Huge feature and worth a couple $100 over the life of the unit.

Over all,  I may have talked my self into taking a long hard look at it. 

I know some online auto body shop venders are letting you buy large ticket items and have the payments taken out of your card over several months-----hmmmmm if it works for SATA.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I'm not trying to debate these points, but I've personally used both units and have extensive feedback from professional crews who have used both.

Those abrasives costs are slightly misrepresented in my opinion because it doesn't include the Radius 360 Power Pad @ $12/ea which are required in addition to the abrasives discs and have to be replaced regularly. The Planex doesn't require a backing pad like that. Plus, consider the longevity of the abrasives, which are not all created equally, especially with a brand I've never heard of.

I have read and heard from PC users that the units break down regularly because of that drive cable failing. The fact that you know about the part(s) needed to replace it tells me that you've experienced at least one failure. From what I've been told, it costs more than that but probably included labor. If you don't have the replacement part in the field and know how to replace it, you're down for however long it takes to repair it. Time is money. I don't have any scientific data to share, but I can't imagine what it would take to break the metal gears in the Planex's gearbox.

The speed dial was out of reach in my opinion and was on the underside of the handle where it was impossible to see without flipping the sander over. I found the dial to be rather small and stiff to turn. Just my perspective.

Should you lose the brush section, which will safe in your Planex Systainer [wink], it should not significantly affect dust extraction since, unlike the PC, dust is extracted from the center rather than the outside of the pad in most applications.

I don't doubt there are guys that have used the PC unit who found it to be satisfactory but they had no point of reference with which they could compare it. I think most everyone here should realize what Festool represents and the type of products we produce.

 

[score0matic]

Should you lose the brush section, which will safe in your Planex Systainer [wink], it should not significantly affect dust extraction since, unlike the PC, dust is extracted from the center rather than the outside of the pad in most applications.

That is something worth pointing out more directly!! as it is a feature that differentiates it self from the PC in a way that is important..

...The PC  sucks from the RIM  and can leave sanding groves about 1" from the corner unless you are very careful and you cannot use it for inside corner sanding.

I don't doubt there are guys that have used the PC unit who found it to be satisfactory but they had no point of reference with which they could compare it. I think most everyone here should realize what Festool represents and the type of products we produce.

Cables do fail  but many forget how long they have been running the tool (kinda like how a driver breaks on a roofing gun or framer)  and lets face it it is almost a 20 yr old tool that Stanley is unlikely to update unless they get competition from some sector  [big grin]