Consumer Product Safety Commision (USA) may be making moves

Interesting. Does that signal the SawStop finger-saving technology monopoly is soon coming to an end, and the new requirement may have something to do with it? Or, as you said, it may end up nothing.

I do hope that soon every new table saw manufactured, regardless of brands, will have the proven finger safety feature.
 
ChuckS said:
Interesting. Does that signal the SawStop finger-saving technology monopoly is soon coming to an end, and the new requirement may have something to do with it? Or, as you said, it may end up nothing.

I do hope that soon every new table saw manufactured, regardless of brands, will have the proven finger safety feature.

If they all have to have it, then they will have to license the technology from Sawstop (Festool/TTS) and then they can put it on every saw.  That means the patent would become a "standard" more or less and TTS can charge reasonable fees, but must license it to everyone.  Sawstop started to lobby these guys YEARS ago.....
 
We'll just end up with crazy glued safety guards with the express label that it causes cancer in the state of California and that removal violates your warranty and indemnify the mfg.
 
woodferret said:
We'll just end up with crazy glued safety guards with the express label that it causes cancer in the state of California and that removal violates your warranty and indemnify the mfg.

No, the spec says you can't have a cut more than XX - unless it is impossible for a 3yo to get their hand that far under the guard - then maybe....

I would imagine everyone will make a sawstop style or maybe the altendorf style will take off
 
The SawStop/Bosch agreement is surely surprising and encouraging. I'm more inclined to think that SawStop won't wait the expiry of the last patent to allow its competitors to use its technology on their saws. If that is indeed the case, everybody wins, especially the consumers/woodworkers. So many people who use a SawStop have avoided serious injuries or trips to the ERs, and it's about time that every buyer of a new table saw enjoyed the same protection.
 
mcfal12 said:
I may be wrong but from what I understand about the Sawstop tech- it only works on corded tools (requires a ground) and therefore not feasible in an ever expanding cordless world.

Toolguyd has been posting about this for some time if you want to read more
https://toolguyd.com/sawstop-table-saw-regulations-update-012024/

I am sure there will be a list of exceptions....

Even a battery, they could make a device that goes around your wrist or leg/ankle etc and the saw won't turn on unless it detects you wearing it.
 
I read that there is an alternative system to Saw Stop, which measures the gap between your hand and the blade and stops the blade before contact.

However, I cannot picture how that would be possible.  It would have to be able to distinguish between things that are supposed to be cut and your hands which are not supposed to be cut.

I’m interested in the science.  I’m 75 and I’m not going to buy another table saw.  But interesting.
 
That's Fielder's PCS.  Energizes the blade to creat a capacitance field much like a hyper sensitive touch screen stylus.  Where I don't see the PCS going into smaller saws is that the trunion/arbor is held in place by powerful electromagnets.  The polarity is flipped to push the saw down fast.  That'd eat batteries.
 
Hipplewm said:
Snip.
I would imagine everyone will make a sawstop style or maybe the altendorf style will take off

That should also mean more choices will be made available over time of different finger-saving approaches or technologies as and when they are developed.

Festool has proved that even smaller table saws could adopt the finger-saving technology. Will a cordless saw never benefit from such technology? Never say never as some ingenious fellow, just like Dr Gass before them, might come up with a solution.
 
Packard said:
I read that there is an alternative system to Saw Stop, which measures the gap between your hand and the blade and stops the blade before contact.
Snip

There're two systems (for sliders) that do not require contact with a finger to prevent an injury, Actually three, if the Australian system developed for meat cutting bandsaws is also included. Both the SawStop and Bosch systems will activate the safety system only after the contact of a finger is detected, not counting the misfires.

Whirlwind is another attempt to be an alternative to SawStop, but it hasn't materialized into a commercial product -- at least not yet after so many years.
 
<iframe width="1280" height="720" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FSbv2NbGu6w" title="Altendorf HandGuard - The World&#39;s Safest Sliding Table Saw" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
My bought new Delta Contractor's Saw and I will soldier on as we have for 41 years now.  I had a kickback bruise or two in the early days, but it hasn't bled me so far.  Eternal vigilance is the price of this hobby/vocation.  Maybe another decade or so making sawdust and then this geezer uncle will pass his tools along to my woodworker nephew and get ready for the next adventure.  I don't suppose the CPSC is putting any effort into coming up with a safer casket?
 
woodferret said:
That's Fielder's PCS.  Energizes the blade to creat a capacitance field much like a hyper sensitive touch screen stylus.  Where I don't see the PCS going into smaller saws is that the trunion/arbor is held in place by powerful electromagnets.  The polarity is flipped to push the saw down fast.  That'd eat batteries.
I expect engineers can separate the activation from detection.  As I understand it, the Bosch system uses the equivalent of an airbag deployment system to force the saw down (vs. the Sawstop system which blows a fuse to launch a hunk of metal into the blade).

If it becomes required, I expect the cost to come down.  I have a Sawstop PCS for the shop, but bought a small Dewalt saw for outside the shop.  I picked the Dewalt, in part because I didn't want the weight of the Sawstop JCS - but the price had a lot to do with it too.  If there was a flesh detecting jobsite table saw under $700, I would probably buy it the next time I need to use one.

Of course, plenty of other tools can reach out and bite you, plenty of other tools don't cut your finger off, they turn them to hamburger.
 
woodbutcherbower said:
Mandatory chain-mail gloves or a suit of armour maybe?

We all know gloves are a no-no, despite some social media content creators are seen wearing gloves when doing sawing operation. I think the authority is going to mandate that the blade must break apart itself before hurting anyone or any finger! It's time we brought in a new round of arguments, this time about traditional blades vs new, breakable ones!!!
 
cpw said:
Snip

Of course, plenty of other tools can reach out and bite you, plenty of other tools don't cut your finger off, they turn them to hamburger.

The table saw remains the #1 woodworking tool that causes the most number of most sever injuries. I think if my memory serves me right, the miter saw is next behind it when it comes to stationary tools.

I've been lucky that for the past 15 years, whenever I need to use a table saw, it's either an ICS or a PCS.
 
woodbutcherbower said:
Mandatory chain-mail gloves or a suit of armour maybe?

I also know that you were kidding—making a joke.  But it reminded me of an anecdote that my high school machine shop teacher told us about gloves.

He was in the Navy during WWII.  He was assigned to the machine shop (he was land-based).

There was a guy in the shop that was enormously strong.  He got into a bet where he bet he could stop the spinning of the drill press by grabbing onto the chuck. 

He did not want to chew up his hands in the process, so he put on a pair of heavy duty leather work gloves.

He did not stop the chuck.  In fact the leather enabled a too-strong a grip on the chuck and he broke both of his arms. 

So just in case someone took your “advice”, not only was it unlikely to provide any protection, it was fairly likely to make the injury worse.

As an aside, I got my first table saw when I was 45; before that I had never used one.  But I knew they were dangerous because someone from high school had an “accident” on one.

Vinny T. was a rough character.  He carried a flask to school every day and was pretty well drunk by the time school let out.

He also gambled. 

When I returned from college I ran into Vinny.  He had two prosthetic arms with metal hooks.  He lost both arms to the elbow. 

I was more than mildly shocked by the prosthetics.  He said he lost both arms on a table saw at the cabinet shop where he worked.  I took that at face value at that time.  But 25 years later, after using the table saw for a while, I questioned the concept of the “accident”.

In retrospect, I would bet that the loss of the arms was more likely the result of someone teaching Vinny a lesson about repaying his debts to his bookie. 

I doubt that a SawStop would have helped Vinny.
 
To the best of my knowledge, riving knives and blade guards have been required for all manner of table saws in Germany, and possibly the rest of Europe, for a long time.  The riving knives and blade guards are usually easy to remove, but is not recommended.

As I drive through neighborhoods with housing construction projects, I see small table saws with the safety devices intact.  A site manager at one of my projects told me removing the devices places the company at tremendous financial risk should anyone get hurt.
 
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