Conturo for a outside tight radius

[BJM9818]

I may need to replace the edge banding on a bunch of cabinets. Face of the doors look great, it's just the edge banding that is completely cracked all over.

Will the Conturo work on  the rounded edges of these doors?  Also any issue if the current edge banding had a center channel that locked into the door or can I just glue flat edge banding over this?

Thinking of getting the full set including matching MFT for this project.

 

[Nat X]

Videos say it can handle an outside curve radius of 1", so it might struggle a bit with that.

 

[TOOLTOWN]

The outside radius is more a function of the flexibility of your veneer material, not the machine.  So if your edging is pliable and bendy you should be fine.

The full setup makes an awesome edgebanding station!

Ken

 

[Stone Message]

I think Ken is right but it would be worth a try. You can always warm the edging up a little to encourage it to bend but not so much that it will want to shrink after cooling.

The Conturo is a very easy machine to use. I was lent one by Festool UK and they sent only enough edging to use in my videos. I had just two pieces about 6 inches long left at the end. So, I used the machine for the very first time in a live take, no practice at all, and it was brilliant. I did compound, concave and convex curves.

There were several videos produced but here is a link to just one of them:


Peter

 

[Distinctive Interiors]

I have just recently edged up some laminate kitchen worktops with 2mm thick polyproperlyne (PP) edging.
Some of the worktops had a 25mm outside radius on the corners and the PP edges struggled to stick tightly to the worktop. The problem was that the 2mm PP wanted to peel back off again either side of the 25mm radius.

I did a couple of test runs on some scrap worktop prior to edging the actual customers worktops. The initial attempt was poor as there was a gap either side of the radius, so I thought I'd warm the edging slightly in an oven at a low temperature to see if it would make the edging more plyable. It did, but on the 2nd attempt the gaps were even worse as the warmth of the edging + the hot melt adhesive meant that the stress of the edging was making the edge start to peel off again as the hot melt adhesive was taking longer to set.

After a few more attempts & adjusting the temperature of the edging, adjusting the temperature of the hot melt adhesive and the amount of adhesive dispensed by the Conturo and applying a bit more pressure with the help of the additional roller, I finally got a good result.

I would say that a 25mm outside radius is the limit for 2mm edging of this type. You may find you can get a tighter radius with thinner more flexible material. Plus, if you are edging doors then the height of the material will probably only be 24/25mm high, whereas I was using 43mm high material and it is STIFF....!!!!

Tim.

Edit. I dont think the original groove will be a problem. The Conturo will stick the new edges straight over that.

 

[BJM9818]

Thanks everyone. After thinking about it some more, I may try banding the flats and sanding and possibly painting the corners to match. These cabinets are in a medical office building attached to a hospital. Three exam rooms worth of cabinets and they want high 5 figures to replace. Add in the kitchen and it's a six figure job.  [eek]. Good to be a union commercial guy I'm

I think we will be happy with a 85% job because replacing isn't in the budget for a three year lease. Anything is better than what's on there right now. I may experiment with thin banding and see how it goes but I don't see it sticking to that right a corner.

Distinctive Interiors. 25mm is around a inch so I'm guessing my radius is much tighter.

It's funny at JLC Live Festool Connect spring of 2015 I was sitting there pissed their new tool was a conturo because it's something I would never in a million years have any reason to buy.  My how things can change.

Anybody know the best place to order banding? 

Thanks Again

Brian

 

[Laminator]

I would recommend .5mm banding if the client will accept it.  The thinner the better for turning that tight of radius.

 

[TOOLTOWN]

Lots of places out there to buy different material banding.  For straight wood veneer I've been pleased with the service from veneersupplies.com  Very nice people to work with.

Ken

 

[BJM9818]

Laminator.
Haha. The client is my wife so I'm pretty screwed.

 

[antss]

Pics look to me like that's an 8-10mm radius.

I'd say you're fighting a losing battle trying to edge band that. It's simply a poor design given the material.  Looks like a designer or architect was trying to be "different" and had no idea about manufacturing capabilities.

I'd explore cutting down the doors so that the edge is square - then you'd have something that's doable.  Problem is , I think the resulting gaps between the doors and drawer fronts would be too large.  Worth a look though - 3mm tape might get you close enough. Some of the European manufacturers are now using 6-8 mm gap between their doors.

Why not just order up a pallet load of new door and drawer fronts ? There are plenty of suppliers that will take your measurements and whip out new laminate fronts in two weeks or less. You can even have them do the hinge boring, and most will apply any edgeband you like.  The cost of the banding setup would buy you 25-40 doors alone. 

 

[tiralie]

Also any issue if the current edge banding had a center channel that locked into the door or can I just glue flat edge banding over this?

It appears that those drawer fronts were edged with T-moulding.
I would just reinstall with new T-moulding. Carefully pull the old banding off and replace with new banding. You will have to cut the bottom or the  upright of the T section out of the corner sections to be able to make it around that tight radius.
Tim

 

[BJM9818]

Antss- I found some flexible banding that will do a 12mm radius so I may try that.

While replacing the doors is a good option they will never match the strange 15+ year old color of the frames. I'm guessing there are 50+ doors with many different sizes.

You  I've got to many other things going on right now to even try and measure and drill them all if I ordered new doors and probably be  looking at $10k by th time I'm done.  If I purchase the Conturo and have no further use I can get most of my money back selling it.

 

[antss]

BJM - they look like frameless cabinets to me  [unsure]

Two tone / contrasting kitchens are all the rage from Euro luxury vendors now.  But if it's not to the clients taste - I understand.

I think you under estimate the time required for both tasks.  You're going to handle each and every door and drawer to re band. Same as you would if you remove said fronts and replace them with new ones. Thing about Euro constructed cabinetry is lots of stuff is standardized.  The hinges will be in exactly the same spot on all the doors.  You only need spot check to see if former fabricator goofed.

Even if you were OCD, methodical, slow and made a measured drawing of every single front - shouldn't take you more than 4 hours.    Most of the cabinetry should be the same layout from room to room, lessening the work.  Think you're gong to edgeband, trim, and burnish 50 fronts in the same amount of time ?  How much time getting up tho speed and practicing on the edgebander  do think you'll need ?

I cannot imagine a scenario in which a newbie can edgeband faster than he can measure and place an order.  Oh, I forgot to factor in the time you'll spend removing all that old banding - carefully.  Before you guess on cost - why don't you get a couple of quotes for some of your biggest and most numerous doors.  I think you'll be real surprised how much less than $10k they'll actually be .  And you don't need to drill them, the factory will do that for about $2 a door.  A quick check finds me a thermoform door glossy one side costs $55 for an 18x36 door and $19 for a 24" drawerfront !  If you wanted designer/textured laminate both sides with lasered edgeband it'd cost $110 & $50.  If you wanted, you could even add in an routed / integrated metal handle for $25 ea. if you were looking for the latest style.

What I'm saying is measuring and ordering will be faster than edgebanding - I've done both.  If you're just looking for a reason to justify a new toy - I understand that, but it's not necessarily more efficient.  Or cheaper.

 

[Nat X]

While the thickness and composition of the material most definitely dictate the final outcome, being able to navigate that tight of a change of plane with the machine at its feed rate is something that would take a good amount of practice at the very least. Maybe if it was mounted in the little table attachment it'd be easier, but it's not something I'd try unless I wanted to waste a lot of time and glue.

 

[BJM9818]

Antss- you have an excellent point however in this case we are talking about a union labor  only building. Me taking a few doors home at night in a bag and banding them, nobody is going to notice or care. I replace all the doors with a new color and a multitude of people are going to get pissed off I didn't have union millwork guys do the work.  My wife has enough to worry about setting up her new office doesn't need that kind of headache.  I need to get union labor to remove some old desk left behind.

Just to give you an idea we are looking at $22k to remove wallpaper on 40% of the 2000ft2 office with 9' ceilings and paint walls. No real trim to paint.

NatX- I plan on getting the MFT table for it and use a straight cut router bit to duplicate the radius on some 3/4 to practice.

 

[antss]

Say no more.  I didn't realize you weren't "allowed" to do the work.

I totally understand the politics and costs of working on a union job.

Still think you're going to have a devil of a time getting conturo to do those tight radi.  Come back and show us some pics of how it turns out. 

 

[bkharman]

I would just get new t molding as suggested, snip the T out in the corners and Bob's your uncle!  The fact that in the pics, you showed a couple of corner failures seems to me that they weren't probably well done back then.

It sounds like you really want the Conturo, but it doesn't seem the right tool for the job mate.

Go to Rockler and see what they have. Buy enough for a few doors to see it all at once. I bet you will be happy with the results. Here is a link. Get a trimmer from fastcap and you are set.
http://www.rockler.com/plastic-t-molding-edging-3-4-wide-x-100-long

Cheers. Bryan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BJM9818]

Bkharman- as somebody else mentioned prior I will probably grab a roll of the T banding and see how that works out first. Every single corner on every door is cracked along with multiple cracks on every straight part. It's a complete mess but the rest of the cabinets are serviceable.

I am concerned the MDF has deteriorated enough that the T molding will not stay put once its installed. The few edges I looked at  that were exposed were pretty rough.

 

[Bohdan]

If you put some PVA glue in the groove the T molding will be there for good, and if it lifts immediately just clamp it till the glue dries.