Cross cutting small pieces with CMS and TS insert

[cliffp]

I recently had a problem making square cuts to a 43cm x 14cm drawer front (cutting at right angles to the long side) using the sliding table. I was getting an error of around 0.5 mm over the 14cm cut. I had previously had satisfactory results with this set up and bigger pieces. I am confident that the mitre gauge was set correctly. With such a small piece, very little of it is able to ride on the sliding table and to make matters worse, I was only trimming the piece so that only one side of the blade was doing any cutting. I suspect that the blade was pushing the piece to one side (if the blade was cutting on both sides the forces on each side would be balanced) and not anticipating this, I was not holding the piece firmly enough against the mitre fence (and it couldn't be clamped to the table) and it shifted during the cut. I am wondering how to avoid this problem in future and am considering making a cross cut sled that registers along the rip fence (I have the good, so-called LA stopper). I would be interested if anyone has any suggestion as to whether this would be any good or whether there are any better solutions (I don't have a Kapex). I know people don't generally use the rip fence when cross cutting but that is because in such cases people are usually registering the piece to be cut against the fence which is dangerous - in my case, it would only be the sled that made contact.

 

[GarryMartin]

I'd been pondering sleds, but as the TS insert doesn't have a mitre "slot" and my CMS hasn't been delivered yet, I've not been able to visualise potential solutions for smaller parts. So I'm looking forward to see what others do. Good question Cliff!

[popcorn]

 

[bijeshj]

I'd been pondering sleds, but as the TS insert doesn't have a mitre "slot" and my CMS hasn't been delivered yet, I've not been able to visualise potential solutions for smaller parts. So I'm looking forward to see what others do. Good question Cliff!

[popcorn]

Hi, I have never used a CMS. But I wonder if you can build a sled that uses the cross cut fence and sliding table rather than a miter slot.

 

[cliffp]

bijishj, I wondered the same thing but couldn't work it out. Maybe a thin plate attached to the fence and table that is in effect an extension to the table that could slide over the table surface? You would want to make sure the plate didn't scratch the table surface and had low friction. It would also be important to be able to clamp the workpiece against this plate.

On a related note, I wish the Festool mitre gauges had a micro adjust feature. I find it very hit or miss to get the 0 degree angle exactly right (the detent position is not near enough to 0 degrees for my desired level of accuracy).

 

[RC]

How about building the sled to run in the side profile grooves? I'm assuming you have the CMS-GE base with the MFT-like v-grooves on its edges.

 

[bijeshj]

bijishj, I wondered the same thing but couldn't work it out. Maybe a thin plate attached to the fence and table that is in effect an extension to the table that could slide over the table surface? You would want to make sure the plate didn't scratch the table surface and had low friction. It would also be important to be able to clamp the workpiece against this plate.

On a related note, I wish the Festool mitre gauges had a micro adjust feature. I find it very hit or miss to get the 0 degree angle exactly right (the detent position is not near enough to 0 degrees for my desired level of accuracy).

I do something similar with my hammer k3. The sled is clamped to the sliding table using the cross cut fence as the 90deg reference. I just use mdf for the sled.

 

[cliffp]

How about building the sled to run in the side profile grooves?

I do have the CMS-GE base. I wouldn't have thought the grooves would provide a very good guide as they are 'V' cross-section which would not locate the inserted runner very securely compared to a square section mitre slot. I suppose you could improve things by using both grooves (ie the ones on either side of the table).

The sled is clamped to the sliding table using the cross cut fence as the 90deg reference. I just use mdf for the sled.

This makes sense - after all any cross cut sled loses the thickness of the sled base in potential cutting depth and this arrangement is no different except in what it references off.

I just looked up your Hammer K3 - I'm jealous!

 

[RC]

Well my first thought definitely was to have it run in both slots with triangular runners with teflon padding or hard plastic on them and make the sled significantly wider than the GE to have good support for work piece. Also I was thinking about maybe adding a T-track on the front edge to support T-track mounted stops and clamping options... Haven't built one since I've been happy enough with the sliding table and mitre gauge myself.

A more complicated option would be to add some sort of support brackets on the underside of the V-groove to stop the sled from tipping over when slid back before the cut - maybe some sort of rubber wheels/runners?

Have you by the way checked that your miter gauge hasn't been knocked out of alignment? I hadn't calibrated mine for a year when I noticed similar symptoms in mine last time I was cutting drawer sides on my CMS. 5 min later I had my gauge adjusted square to the saw blade and everything was spot-on thereafter.

 

[peter halle]

I did something similar.  Perhaps the green will give you some ideas.

Peter

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[cliffp]

Reiska and Peter, some great suggestions.  I will look into your ideas for the 'V' groove sled and sliding table extension very soon. I have been happy with the setup until the recent experience and realise I am taking the equipment out of its comfort zone. Re: the mitre gauge being knocked out of alignment. I am guessing that you are referring to calibration of the detent position? I can look into that tomorrow. I always check that my setting of the angle (not using the detent) is correct but haven't looked at the possibility of calibrating the detent.

 

[peter halle]

Cliff, adjusting the detent on the miter gauge is easy and can be seen in virtually any Festool video on setting up the MFT/3.

Peter

 

[GarryMartin]

I would be interested if anyone has any suggestion as to whether this would be any good or whether there are any better solutions (I don't have a Kapex)

Perhaps you should buy a Kapex Cliff?  [poke]

 

[cliffp]

Thanks Peter, I'll do it. It is about the only Festool item I've had that wasn't 100% perfectly calibrated out of the factory (and isn't far out).

 

[cliffp]

Perhaps you should buy a Kapex Cliff?

Its definitely on the cards. BTW we have converged even more in our Festool lineup since I ordered an ETS150/3 and EHL65!

 

[GarryMartin]

BTW we have converged even more in our Festool lineup since I ordered an ETS150/3 and EHL65!

Nice  [thumbs up]

Can't wait to get my hands on my new gear. Hopefully next week.

 

[cliffp]

I am actually dreading the arrival of my £1600 consignment! My wife works at home and although I have picked a delivery day when I can be at home, her office window looks out on the place where the boxes will be unloaded She has already told me to stop buying more tools!

 

[GarryMartin]

I know.

You tell your wife that yours are a generous gift from me, and I'll tell my wife mine are a generous gift from you, and we can backup each others' story.  [wink]

So long as they don't notice the credit card bill and subsequent reduction in bank balance of course...  [embarassed]

 

[cliffp]

I have come up with some great cock and bull stories in the past. I tend to exaggerate the extremely generous offers (ie the £50 vouchers) and claim to have come up with a way of getting even more discount (in reality this is just buying from heavily discounted places like powertool supplies). I claim to be able to get the tools so cheaply that I wouldn't lose much money on them (which isn't far from the truth anyway). Garry, maybe we can exploit the fact that we have nigh on identical signature lines? We actually bought them together (they are shared) and I just happen to be looking after them at the moment? You have lost interest in woodworking and so haven't wanted to use them.

 

[GarryMartin]

Like a time-share? Good thinking.

Yeah, that might work...  [big grin]

 

[RC]

Garry & Cliff,
You should make up a good story as to why your set of Festoys is The Optimal Set and start marketing that as a 'Starter Kit' to every new FOG member who asks which tool to get first  [tongue]
Buy them wholesale from Festool and them mark-up a bit for the 'consultancy service' rendered in the selection process...  [wink]