Crown moulding - which ends should be butt cuts or coped cuts?

[promark747]

I am going to install crown in a small powder room, and have a question regarding the layout of the corners.  Since I am coping the inside corners, would the first installed piece have butt cuts on both ends?  This would seem to indicate that as I go around the room, the fourth wall will require coped cuts on both ends.  In other words, here would be the four walls:

Butt-Butt
Cope-Butt
Cope-Butt
Cope-Cope

Alternatively, I guess I could first do Butt-Butt on two opposing walls, and then fit Cope-Cope on the other two.  What is the typical method for laying out a simple room like this when coping?

Thanks

 

[deepcreek]

You generally install crown molding clockwise.  In a square room, I start with a cope on the left end and a butt on the right end.  The longer the wall the easier it will be to slip the last piece behind the first.  Use a sacrificial piece to fit the cope on the left end and then a third hand pole to hold the coped end in place.  Only nail the right end and then continue around the room in the same manner (Cope Left - Butt Right).  On the last piece, remove the third hand pole and slip the butt joint behind your first cope.  Nail both pieces.

If the room is too small to start with a slip cope, you'll have to end with a double cope.  Not fun if it's stain grade.  Another option is to build crown corner blocks and eliminate the need to cope.  This is a common DIYer shortcut but I've occasionally used it as an extra embellishment.

 

[promark747]

Thanks Joe...I didn't think to use a sacrificial "butt" piece to fit the initial cope, but that makes sense.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

I install crown with the last piece being a cope/cope.  I like the cope to cope because it locks in and makes a very tight joints. 

 

[deepcreek]

Thanks Joe...I didn't think to use a sacrificial "butt" piece to fit the initial cope, but that makes sense.

Gary Katz taught me that trick.

 

[JimD]

Ron Paulk has a great series of 6 you tube videos on installing crown molding.  Worth watching if you are relatively new at this.  I am not and still learned some things.  His jigs are definitely worth considering.

I would put a butt/butt piece up first and a cope/cope last.  I would put the butt/butt in the most conspicuous spot and the cope/cope in the least.  But if you them right it shouldn't matter.  You also need to consider what you have to nail to and may need to add a backer piece on at least one wall.  I like to use butt joints on long pieces and try to start with the longest piece.  That way if I mess up, it can be salvaged and used in another location.  I've never tried sliding crown behind other crown.  It seems a little dicey, especially in a small room.  Probably works well once you get the hang of it (like lots of things). 

 

[iekoch@comcast.net]

Gary Katz and Paulk are great.  Remember to place the copes where you cannot see them as easily.  Usually starting with the piece on back wall first. 

 

[Luzzy]

Having done miles of crown in the last 28 years , I only wish I had stumbled on the Ras sander earlier. You can pretty much get perfect copes with that thing. About 10 years ago I installed 6" crown throughout my house. Most was poplar to be painted , but in the bedroom , cherry. I coped it using my jig saw as i do on most bigger crown. The copes look very good , but had I had the Ras or a grinder with a sanding disc , they'd be perfect. Then ending  with a cope/cope in a smaller room is a breeze.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

I install a lot of tirm.  Cope to copes work great.  They will lock the crown in for a very tight joint.  You can put a cope anywhere.  As long as the cope is done correctly you will not see it.  I do all my copes with a coping saw.  I cope everything from shoe mold on up.  Your cuts were wrong.

Butt, Butt
Cope, Butt
Butt, Cope
Cope, Cope

 

[justinh]

The only time I double cope is for a long piece between to short preassembled sections around a column or something similar.  I want the tension of the snap fit to hold the joint long term that you won't get if you cope the short section into the long.  Aside from that I cope rights as I am right handed. On crown in a square room you leave the first few feet of a long section unnailed and slip the last piece behind it. Once the last piece gets butted in the first gets snapped into it and tapped tight. My entire list will read cope to butt.  On base I start next to a door with a butt to butt and everything else is a cope to butt.  The only time that will change is if there are small pieces next to a door.  I fit the small piece as a butt to butt and cope into it even if it requires a double.

For small projects I cope with a jigsaw and coping foot.  Anything past a room or two of the same moulding I bring out the Copemaster.  Once you get a feel for the tool and become proficient at making templates the thing is pure speed with a high level of quality. With either the jigsaw or Copemaster I cope only one direction

Favoring site lines when locating copes is a craps shoot.  There will always be a place in a room where a potential open joint can be seen.  With modern heat/AC and a bit of attention paid to site ambient humidity and MC of material I feel very comfortable that my joints will remain tight and invisible coping only one direction.

 

[mkasdin]

Your doing crown molding in the corners where the wall and ceiling meet? If it's paint grade then caulking and paint hides imperfections. I've used a Dap plastic radius tool to clean the 90degree joints to seamlessly hide voids and out of true wall sections. It might be worth getting the $10 tooling for a paint grade job. 

 

[Lbob131]

What  is a powder room?

 

[peter halle]

A Powder room is usually a bathroom that only has a sink and a mirror.  A place for ladies to "powder" their faces.

Peter

 

[Phil Beckley]

A Powder room is usually a bathroom that only has a sink and a mirror.  A place for ladies to "powder" their faces.

Peter

.........hmm, I was going to jump in with 'dressingroom'.....
Rg
Phil

 

[Lbob131]

How did  the name  originate?
I'm guessing  cosmetics  in the olden days  in America  were  made  from much more powdery  materials. So if  you happen to walk in there  while  the lady/ladies  were  powdering  themselves  then you'd be hit  with a blast of  the powder/dust  straight into your face.

A bit like walking into a workshop  that doesn't  use festools. 8)
(Head down  incoming)

 

[leakyroof]

The only time I double cope is for a long piece between to short preassembled sections around a column or something similar.  I want the tension of the snap fit to hold the joint long term that you won't get if you cope the short section into the long.  Aside from that I cope rights as I am right handed. On crown in a square room you leave the first few feet of a long section unnailed and slip the last piece behind it. Once the last piece gets butted in the first gets snapped into it and tapped tight. My entire list will read cope to butt.  On base I start next to a door with a butt to butt and everything else is a cope to butt.  The only time that will change is if there are small pieces next to a door.  I fit the small piece as a butt to butt and cope into it even if it requires a double.

For small projects I cope with a jigsaw and coping foot.  Anything past a room or two of the same moulding I bring out the Copemaster.  Once you get a feel for the tool and become proficient at making templates the thing is pure speed with a high level of quality. With either the jigsaw or Copemaster I cope only one direction

Favoring site lines when locating copes is a craps shoot.  There will always be a place in a room where a potential open joint can be seen.  With modern heat/AC and a bit of attention paid to site ambient humidity and MC of material I feel very comfortable that my joints will remain tight and invisible coping only one direction.

  Interesting, now I have to read up on this Copemaster.. [blink]

 

[tjbnwi]

Justin running his Copemaster.


Coped some shoe--it was a sarcasm/sarcastic joke for another forum (again, Justin and his Copemaster).


Tom

 

[Holmz]

How did  the name  originate?
I'm guessing  cosmetics  in the olden days  in America  were  made  from much more powdery  materials. So if  you happen to walk in there  while  the lady/ladies  were  powdering  themselves  then you'd be hit  with a blast of  the powder/dust  straight into your face.

A bit like walking into a workshop  that doesn't  use festools. 8)
(Head down  incoming)

Or when cocaine was legal a century+ ago.  Probably make up powder.

 

[justinh]

The only time I double cope is for a long piece between to short preassembled sections around a column or something similar.  I want the tension of the snap fit to hold the joint long term that you won't get if you cope the short section into the long.  Aside from that I cope rights as I am right handed. On crown in a square room you leave the first few feet of a long section unnailed and slip the last piece behind it. Once the last piece gets butted in the first gets snapped into it and tapped tight. My entire list will read cope to butt.  On base I start next to a door with a butt to butt and everything else is a cope to butt.  The only time that will change is if there are small pieces next to a door.  I fit the small piece as a butt to butt and cope into it even if it requires a double.

For small projects I cope with a jigsaw and coping foot.  Anything past a room or two of the same moulding I bring out the Copemaster.  Once you get a feel for the tool and become proficient at making templates the thing is pure speed with a high level of quality. With either the jigsaw or Copemaster I cope only one direction

Favoring site lines when locating copes is a craps shoot.  There will always be a place in a room where a potential open joint can be seen.  With modern heat/AC and a bit of attention paid to site ambient humidity and MC of material I feel very comfortable that my joints will remain tight and invisible coping only one direction.

  Interesting, now I have to read up on this Copemaster.. [blink]

It's a cope duplicator.  You make a template of the cope using the machine and a piece of the moulding.  The template gets cut free hand on the machine.  Once the template is made the machine takes almost all of the hand work out of coping any running trim that is copable.  The downsides are it is no longer in production (can be found used), making an accurate template takes practise, and it is very unforgiving of mouldings that vary in profile and width.  If you are working with consistent, good quality trim it is a pleasure to use and gets through a pile of trim in a hurry with tight joints on the install.

Tom shot this video too.  Pretty close to real time to cut the copes on a room of a fairly intricate base.
=youtu.be

 

[leakyroof]

I had read today while researching it, that Bill S., the inventor , was trying to come out with a version 2.0 a few years back.