CT 36 AC

[sdcaprentry]

First post  [eek] and before everyone freaks out about maybe a repeating question, I have tried using the search but most for the "AC"  are classifieds.

Before I ask my question, a little background may be needed. I am a contractor in the state of California and OSHA can be very strict. I only work residential remodels so OSHA does not really post a threat, but I do hire subs and workers from time to time, so I would like to be complaint. 99% of my work is woodworking and kitchen/bath remodels. I don't grind mortar or cement often but have in the past.

I have really been strongly looking at the ct26 and 48. Because they both meet at least one of OSHA's hepa requirements.

Is the AC able to be converted to HEPA cert with the AC feature to meet the new requirement.

To the best of my knowledge other competitors have the same standard HEPA cert that festool caries but then added AC function.

Thanks guys.

 

[peter halle]

Welcome to the FOG!  We are a great resource of information and Festool does monitor the Ask Festool area, BUT I am about to give advice that might seem strange coming from a moderator at first glance:

Contact Festool USA directly in writing away from the internet regarding this.  And request a written response to your succinct and well thought out questions.  There are potential exposure issues for you in the future and you will want written answers from the manufacturer for your files.

Please don't take this as "go away."  Quite the opposite.  Want you here for a long long time! [thumbs up]

Peter

 

[sdcaprentry]

No, not at all. I definitely understand. This forum is helpful with questions like this from a personal level regarding a hobbyist, but it would be best to get a written response from the actual manufacture to have some clout to stand up later if ever needed in court.

I went to a local dealer yesterday and took a look at the different sizes. I am mobile so maybe the 48 is to large once full capacity is reached but the cost difference between the 26 and 48 makes me question if I'm nailing my foot to the floor. What are other opinions for people using outside of a shop environment?

 

[rst]

As long as you are not grinding anything that creates silica dust any of Festools vac is fine.  Silica dust however leaves Festool lacking as the OSHA reqs specify that the vac pull 150 cfm.  The Festool filter meets regs but the vacs do not.  Despite having three Fein vacs and two Festools, I'm looking at having to buy one of the new Milwaukee vacs to suck on my Metabo saw and grinder.    [crying]

 

[Michael Kellough]

As long as you are not grinding anything that creates silica dust any of Festools vac is fine.  Silica dust however leaves Festool lacking as the OSHA reqs specify that the vac pull 150 cfm.  The Festool filter meets regs but the vacs do not.  Despite having three Fein vacs and two Festools, I'm looking at having to buy one of the new Milwaukee vacs to suck on my Metabo saw and grinder.    [crying]

[member=25351]rst[/member] Which ones?

 

[Rob Z]

FYI in case it helps, at one time I had two Hilti vacs that were designed to be used with tuck-pointing attachments on grinders.  Those vacs were fantastic at dust control, although the internal filter-thumping feature was loud.  I sold them when we stopped doing masonry jobs but otherwise I was quite pleased with the performance.

I don't know if they still make the same model but they were spendy.  [eek]

As long as you are not grinding anything that creates silica dust any of Festools vac is fine.  Silica dust however leaves Festool lacking as the OSHA reqs specify that the vac pull 150 cfm.  The Festool filter meets regs but the vacs do not.  Despite having three Fein vacs and two Festools, I'm looking at having to buy one of the new Milwaukee vacs to suck on my Metabo saw and grinder.    [crying]

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

As far as OSHA is concerned, you may want to look at the Hilti VC-150 line of vacuums. They are commonly used on commercial/industrial sites, so the OSHA inspectors should be familiar with them. Downside is they are spendy, and the hose system is really optimized for use with the Hilti concrete tools.
https://www.hilti.com/dust-management/vacuum-cleaners-&-accessories/vacuum-cleaners/r7496694

I recently purchased a Nilfisk Attix vac and LOVE it! It was designed for the new OSHA regs, and features 3-stage filtration (1. Fleece bag, 2. Primary PTFE pulsed filter, 3. HEPA filter). I appreciate that it has a Systainer docking station adapter available, and the hose system is ingenious. I bought the Attix 33-21, but am realizing I would be better served by the Attix 44 and have a replacement tub on order. It has a filter pulsing feature which can be overridden with the main switch.

I recently used my Attix vac on a demo project. I hooked it up to my Metabo angle grinder with the dust shroud and used it to score drywall panels so it was easier to remove them. The Attix vac kept with the drywall dust  just fine, every now and then I'd cover the inlet and give it an extra pulse or two to clear any accumulated dust that caked on the fleece bag. Using the fleece bag when sanding/grinding drywall/concrete/plaster/stucco is a big help, disposal is very easy and straightforward.

I ordered the Long Life Filter Bag for sawing/routing/planing wood, my Nilfisk rep was telling me that if/when the reusable bag gets clogged I can turn it inside out and wash it with mild detergent in the sink to refresh it. Nifty!
https://www.nilfisk.com/en/products/Pages/product.aspx?pid=107412125

The new Milwaukee vac is a rebranded Nilfisk Attix 33, and should be compatible with the full line of Nilfisk accessories. Interesting note, the Attix 33 and 44 ship with a 32mm antistatic hose, whereas the Milwaukee unit ships with a 36mm antistatic hose.
https://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/8960-20

The silver lining of the OSHA regs is that there has been a proliferation of high quality vacs.

 

[manuc]

If I were you I would get the CT 26 and a Oneida Dust Deputy. I have the CT 36 and the Dust Deputy. Kind of wish I had gone with the CT 26 since the 36 with the Dust Deputy is tall. I wouldn’t bother with a long life and put that money towards the Dust Deputy... Just my opinion.

I’m doing drywall work now and the setup is working great.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

If I were you I would get the CT 26 and a Oneida Dust Deputy. I have the CT 36 and the Dust Deputy. Kind of wish I had gone with the CT 26 since the 36 with the Dust Deputy is tall. I wouldn’t bother with a long life and put that money towards the Dust Deputy... Just my opinion.

I’m doing drywall work now and the setup is working great.

The long life, reusable bags are best suited for larger wood "chips", generally produced when sawing, routing and planing solid wood products.

The Dust Deputy (and other cyclonic separators) are most effective on larger debris. As the debris gets smaller, the cyclone becomes increasingly less effective. This is not to say that they become completely ineffective, rather instead of being 99%+ effective, their effectiveness drops to something closer to, say, 50%. This is fine, but understand that you'll still cake the inside of your fleece bag long before you actually fill it with drywall dust.

I've spoken at length about this topic (extracting cementitious dust) with Oneida, Nilfisk, and other manufacturers. Ultimately, what I've arrived at is:
1. Collecting the dust in a fleece bag is preferable because it is a cleaner working method, and the filters last longer and are in better shape for general clean up.
2. When collecting fine cementitious dust, don't get hung-up on trying to fill the bag. Use the bag until performance drops below a suitable level, then pitch the bag and start a new one. Remember, you should be charging customers for the bags, not paying for them out of pocket.
3. The filter-pulsing function on some vacs (Nilfisk, Hilti, Starmix, etc...) is powerful enough that it seems to help drop the cake off the fleece bag, and extends its performance.
4. The Ultimate Dust Deputy is nifty, but I found it to be cumbersome for use on-site. If I really want a portable cyclonic separator on-site, I'll bring my Oneida Dust Cobra.

 

[Rob Z]

That link that Tom posted looks like the Hilti vacs we used to use.  I don't recall the model number, but I think that's it.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

That link that Tom posted looks like the Hilti vacs we used to use.  I don't recall the model number, but I think that's it.

It's the same vac that Hilti has been selling for years (I think maybe it's a rebranded Nilfisk??), but Hilti changed the model number to coincide with the OSHA cfm requirements for Table 1 compliance (VC-125 vacs fit the 125cfm class, VC-150 vacs fit the 150cfm classification, etc...). The E indicates if the vac has an onboard electrical socket.

 

[Michael Kellough]

[member=2726]Tom Gensmer[/member],  that Milwaukee page is weird, says it’s a cordless vac.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

[member=2726]Tom Gensmer[/member],  that Milwaukee page is weird, says it’s a cordless vac.

Yeah, I don't think Milwaukee put a lot of effort into their marketing of the vacuum. If I were considering it, I'd opt for the original Nilfisk Attix 33 or 44.

 

[rst]

coptool.com/2017-vacuum-comparison-test-osha-silica-table-1-compliant    youtube.com/watch?v=4XwV2B62qCE

 

[semenza]

I may not be  interpreting correctly from your posts but just to be sure ...................... the CT36 is available in two versions. CT36 HEPA and CT36AC. Your conversion idea might be looking to get the best of both worlds or is it just the size you are after?

Seth

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

[member=1619]SRSemenza[/member] my interpretation of his question is that he's looking for a vacuum that meets OSHA Table 1 requirements, which require both HEPA certification as well as a onboard filter cleaning mechanism (this is my understanding of the requirement, in a nutshell).

I know that the CT-36 AC is essentially a souped-up CT-36 HEPA, but since it doesn't carry a HEPA certification from the manufacturer is wouldn't qualify to meet OSHA standards as they relate to the new silica exposure standards.

 

[sdcaprentry]

That is correct. I don't grind any mortar, maybe once a year or every blue moon.  I am primarily a trim/kitchen re-modeler and have been wanting to buy the RO150 so thats why I thought I would make the jump to the festool vac, I just don't want to be kicking my self spending the same amount on a vacuum that could have carried the standard, if and when i needed it too.

So with OSHA in mind, what is the general consensus, Milwaukee or Bosch?

If I don't think I would ever grind, or want to take the risk without, is the Festool ct26 much better then the Milwaukee, with forum love aside.

I am buying the 125 or RO150

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

[member=67291]sdcaprentry[/member] If you'd just performing normal jobsite clean up and woodworking the CT-26 and CT-36 are great. The fleece bags act as a pre-filter so you get good performance until the bag is nearly full. Where the standard CT-26/36 falter is they are not OSHA Table 1 compliant, and can struggle with regularly extracting fine cementitious dust.

Between the Nilfisk/Milwaukee vs. Bosch I'd steer you towards the Nilfisk/Milwuakee. The front casters of the Nilfisk/Milwaukee are larger and better suited to navigating a job site. The Bosch only docks L-Boxx containers, whereas the docking station (accessory, $25) on the Nilfisk/Milwaukee accepts both L-Boxx AND Systainers.

 

[Kevin D.]

I'm not sure this is the answer you are looking for, but here goes...and keep in mind where I live here in Canada we don't have the OSHA rules yet, nor am I a user beyond an 'Expert DIYer' (Yes there is such a classification as I've just invented it....lol!)

I have the CT36AC,  I've used it for extracting concrete/silca grindings using its supplied filter.  Works beauty.  I didn't feel I was breathing squat contaminants but some anal scientist may have judged otherwise using million dollar equipment simply to tell me that five generations from now descendants might develop hooves, ... Screw em!

I have also 'swapped out' components in my CT36AC to make it more like my other Festool CT22 and use it a regular CT unit.  I swapped out the filter that came with my CT36AC with the same filter for the CT36 standard model but now the Hepa filter, and also install the self-cleaning filter bag in lieu of the plastic collection bag for silica/concrete crap.  Works just fine. 

Heard of many others doing this and is why I went with the CT36AC versus just getting another regular CT.  The thing you have to do do, is disable the auto-clean function.  I simply put a piece of blue painters tape over the auto switch leaving the variably controlled timed switch set at "0" basically.  Works for me.  But in a crew setting, I would bet this doesn't work hardly at all or not at all.

FWIW

 

[sdcaprentry]

I ended up starting off with (1) ct-26, (1) ETS 125 REQ, and (1) DTS400 REQ, shortly after decided to get 1 more ct-26 because i was impressed with how well it feels the bag capacity to the brim, which is unlike any other vacuum that fills only 50% imo. Next on the list is the Domino XL