Ct midi HEPA Filter Dent

[Standard]

Hey folks, new user to the forum and festool. I just purchased a ct midi to do some clean up work around my in-laws house that has some lead painted windows and had painting done by someone else that left some chips around.
  The vac I bought was  the display at a paint store, brand new, apparently they don’t keep the boxes and just put the vacs out. One thing I noticed when I got home was the filter was already installed and had a little dent in the pleats that I just tapped and it went back to shape. Maybe silly questions but..1) is it ok if the filter had a small dent in pleats? 2) is there any problem with the hepa filter having been opened, does time filter is installed affect filtration?
  Thanks for any help. The site has already been a lot of help in deciding on a festool. Though deciding between a midi and 26 was tough.

 

[Gregor]

Should be no problem as long a the filter material itself isn't broken by the denting or tapping it back into shape.

 

[Cheese]

As long as it was a dent and not a cut you’re good to go. These filter elements are pretty resilient/tough.

 

[Brice Burrell]

As already mentioned your filter is probably fine.  The filters wear with use only, so it doesn't matter that it has been installed.

I know you didn't ask about your painting job, but I thought I'd mention that your painters leaving lead paint chips around is a violation.  If you haven't already google EPA/Renovation, Repair and Painting. 

 

[Standard]

Thanks for the info.
  The paint chips are more from lack of upkeep than any previous work, PNW weather is tough on paint if you fall behind in maintenance. I’m hoping to clean it up and get some fresh paint on it for the in-laws.
  Couple more questions,  I saw a nilfisk aero 21  hepa vac supposedly sealed unit for about $300. I’m into this festool w/attachments about $700, cfm and lift are a little less on the nilfisk, warranty is not as long, filters are quite a bit more. The nilfisk is 5 gallon. By reading it seems the festool bags will fill better and fuller, the nilfisk has the round style typical of shop vac, even on an older fein I owned those don’t seem to fill well. Anyone ever try one of these nilfisk? I haven’t used the ct yet. I’d like what ever I buy to work well at shop/truck clean up as well as when attached to tools. Will the ct be good for this? Seems the ct may be the miele of shop/tool vacs, I spent quite a bit on one of those as a home vac and have been quite impressed with its quality and performance.
  One last thing, I was reading the ct manual, and was suprised it says not to use on hazardous dust, thats part of the point of the purchase, wondering what the deal is? The nilfisk online manual also has the same warning that until you get up to there $1500 plus models.

 

[semenza]

Thanks for the info.
  The paint chips are more from lack of upkeep than any previous work, PNW weather is tough on paint if you fall behind in maintenance. I’m hoping to clean it up and get some fresh paint on it for the in-laws.
  Couple more questions,  I saw a nilfisk aero 21  hepa vac supposedly sealed unit for about $300. I’m into this festool w/attachments about $700, cfm and lift are a little less on the nilfisk, warranty is not as long, filters are quite a bit more. The nilfisk is 5 gallon. By reading it seems the festool bags will fill better and fuller, the nilfisk has the round style typical of shop vac, even on an older fein I owned those don’t seem to fill well. Anyone ever try one of these nilfisk? I haven’t used the ct yet. I’d like what ever I buy to work well at shop/truck clean up as well as when attached to tools. Will the ct be good for this? Seems the ct may be the miele of shop/tool vacs, I spent quite a bit on one of those as a home vac and have been quite impressed with its quality and performance.
  One last thing, I was reading the ct manual, and was suprised it says not to use on hazardous dust, thats part of the point of the purchase, wondering what the deal is? The nilfisk online manual also has the same warning that until you get up to there $1500 plus models.

Hi,

  Welcome to the forum!

      Maybe [member=57769]TylerC[/member] can provide some more info on exactly what the hazardous dust warning means?

Seth

 

[Cheese]

One last thing, I was reading the ct manual, and was suprised it says not to use on hazardous dust, thats part of the point of the purchase, wondering what the deal is?

I didn't believe that statement so I pulled out my MIDI manual and there it was:

Not suitable to vacuum hazardous or toxic substances or dusts e.g. asbestos.

 

[Brice Burrell]

One last thing, I was reading the ct manual, and was suprised it says not to use on hazardous dust, thats part of the point of the purchase, wondering what the deal is?

I didn't believe that statement so I pulled out my MIDI manual and there it was:

Not suitable to vacuum hazardous or toxic substances or dusts e.g. asbestos.

This is Festool releasing themselves from liability.  I'll say this, Festool spent a fair bit of money to get the CT vacs "HEPA certified" for the RRP market.  You can draw your own conclusions as to whether or not the vacs are safe to use with lead based paints, and other hazardous dust. 

 

[Brice Burrell]

Couple more questions,  I saw a nilfisk aero 21  hepa vac........

I have no experience with the Nilfisk so I have nothing to add on it.  What I will say about the CT Mini/Midi, is that they tend to have reduced suction before the bag is filled.  Depending on what you're doing that may, or may not be an issue.  For example, the more coarse dust from sawing and routing don't seem to be a problem.  Fine dust from sanding, and cleaning can clog the pores of the filter bag, sometimes greatly, reducing suction long before the bag is full.  The bigger CT vacs, CT 26 and up, don't seem to be problematic with reduced suction problems. 

I happen to think the convenience of the smaller vacs are worth the trade off of sometimes tossing bags before they are full.  If you're a hobbyist and you don't need to move the vac around, and you pay for the bags, you might feel differently.       

 

[AlexThePalex]

Regarding hazardous dust, lead paint and asbestos are in no way in the same category. Lead paint is like chocolate cake compared to asbestos.

When Festool warns about hazardous dust, they mean the really bad stuff, like asbestos or other very reactive chemicals. Those require special vacs. You can suck up lead paint just fine with the standard Festool vacs.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

[member=66367]Standard[/member] - First of all, welcome to the FOG!

"Hazardous or toxic substances or dusts" is a broad term that could, as [member=5277]Alex[/member] noted, be understood to include dust that the machine was not designed for, which could be outside the realm of those things commonly encountered outside of the intended usage. The manual does not specify any individual substances. Additionally, certain states, jurisdictions, and other locally governed bodies may have additional requirements for any type of work done in their environment.

I can certainly appreciate if all of this seems like vague legalese. It sounds like your ultimate question is, "Can I do what I want to do with my CT MIDI?"

Based on what you've written, it sounds like you're fine. There aren't any red flags. However, we can't speak to anything related to non-Festool products.

On your initial question about the dented filter, the other commenters are mentioned, it sounds like your filter is fine to use.

(Tyler)

 

[Standard]

  Thanks for the info everyone, and the welcome Seth.
Definitely sounds like the ct will work for what I need.
  The info about the ct 26 is interesting also. I definitely won’t be using the extractor everyday but I do like the idea of a bigger bag/better filling, little more cfm, larger hose fits with sys still on top and the lack of the 90 degree on the hose, though it seems festool has made that work very well. Ease of transport not much of an issue, I’m only 50, better be able to lug either. For only, yeah I said it only $140 more to get a machine with much more capacity sounds like it could be a good idea, especially if it doe fill bags better. I know $140 isn’t peanuts but when your already up in the $700 range it seems reasonable.
  Any thoughts folls on midi or 26? Mostly shop work, sander, occassional router, shop/truck clean up.
  Thanks again everyone, very good forum. Impressed that festool reps respond also.

 

[AlexThePalex]

If you mostly stay in the shop the 26 might be better suited. With its bigger capacity you don't have to change bags so often, and suction is slightly better (10-15%) than the Midi. The Midi is ideal for people who haul their vac around all day and go on location.

 

[DB10]

  Stairs are the killer with anything larger than a midi especially when the bags start to get full. So if you don't plan on lugging your CT up and down stairs then probably a 26 might be better.

 

[Gregor]

Regarding the dangerous stuff:

Lead paint as chips falling off where it was painted isn't that big of an issue, lead paint being sanded and inhaled is a very different thing - but that effect will revert itself (in adults) with time when you stop being exposed to a contaminated environment.

Children and adolescents exposed to lead (in a form that can enter their body) will stay stupid as lead hinders the formation of long-term memories in the brain and through this more or less disables learning in humans while being present in the body.

Asbestos based/containing materials are no issue at all while the material is intact (as the fibers are confined into a material matrix), but treat it mechanically (or give it time to decompose) and it turns into dust that then inhaled is a completely different beast - it'll drastically increase your chance of lung cancer from minute one in an irreversible manner.

 

[android]

Hey folks, new user to the forum and festool. I just purchased a ct midi to do some clean up work around my in-laws house that has some lead painted windows and had painting done by someone else that left some chips around.
  The vac I bought was  the display at a paint store, brand new, apparently they don’t keep the boxes and just put the vacs out. One thing I noticed when I got home was the filter was already installed and had a little dent in the pleats that I just tapped and it went back to shape.

I just got a MIDI in a new box and the bag and filter were already installed. I guess Festool does it at the factory. All I had to do was take it out and turn it on. The only other thing in the box was the owner's manual. So it sounds like you got all the parts you should have.

 

[kevinculle]

I saw a nilfisk aero 21  hepa vac supposedly sealed unit for about $300.

I have a CT26 and a Nilfisk 21 HEPA I use in my shop and would offer the following observations:
-The Nilfisk lacks the ability to turn on automatically in response to a connected tool
-The Nilfisk lacks the motor speed control the CT26 uses to vary suction
-The CT26 required a $99 expenditure for a kit of tools, the Nilfisk came with tools included but the floor sweep doesn't have the 3 different inserts you get with the CT tool kit
-The apparent noise levels are comparable
-The suction and cleaning performance of the Nilfisk is close to the CT26 on maximum setting
-The Nilfisk is much more compact, much lighter and much easier to lug...if I have a cleaning job upstairs (basement shop) the Nilfisk is always selected
-Both vacs fill the bag efficiently and it is full and heavy when changed...the CT26 bag holds more than the Nilfisk but it also costs a good bit more

So there are pluses and minuses for each and in general I use the CT26 for dust collecting with tools and the Nilfisk for general shop cleanuptasks.  The difference in cost of the two vacuums is quite large and if your budget is tight the Nilfisk does a lot for a lot less.
-The vac