CT Midi vs CT 36 vs CT 36 AC for a home gamer

[sansbury]

I need to buy a dust extractor to support the basic suite of tools including track saw, router, and sander.

I am basically a weekend DIY guy not a full-time tradesman, but I value tools that work really well, save me time and hassle, and give a long service. I try to follow a "buy once, cry once" philosophy which leads me here.

Leaving price aside, is it worth waiting until April to get one of the new CT36/36AC extractors (or buy a 48AC now?), or is the CT midi likely more than enough machine for me? This would be used in a shop with 100% corded Festool tools as I have a fairly complete cordless toolbox in red and yellow flavors.

I was planning to put a CT-VA cyclone on either way as I've always had separators on my shop vacs, mostly because I used them to clean out metalworking machinery and because I hate replacing bags.

If I shouldn't be sucking up aluminum chips with a dust extractor I have my cheapo shop vac I can use for that, so that is optional. I had also been intending to use this extractor to handle a small CNC router, but it turns out I might need a proper dust collector for that, so the cyclone may be more optional in the end.

Thanks in advance for your wisdom!

 

[jonnyrocket]

[member=82933]sansbury[/member]  I currently own many festool extractors. For all my woodworking, Auto Clean was never needed, and continues to not be needed as long as you are using it only for wood.
I do own an CT 36 AC and it is used in traditional mode as well as  AC mode. The AC mode is only ever enabled when I am sanding drywall dust or grinding/cutting large amount of concrete.
If either of those are in your future, then get the AC version now and “cry once”.
Both the drywall dust and concrete dust will cling the filter bags very quickly and render it “done” even if the filter bag is completely empty.
Getting the CT VA separator can help a non-AC extractor handle both of those materials better, but it doesn’t eliminate the need for AC if you are doing more than just small patch.
I hope this is helpful.

 

[sansbury]

[member=82933]sansbury[/member]  I currently own many festool extractors. For all my woodworking, Auto Clean was never needed, and continues to not be needed as long as you are using it only for wood.
I do own an CT 36 AC and it is used in traditional mode as well as  AC mode. The AC mode is only ever enabled when I am sanding drywall dust or grinding/cutting large amount of concrete.

OK, that's interesting. I don't see myself doing any drywall or concrete work with this.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I now have two Festool extractors...a very old CT22 (similar to the CT26) and a new CT Midi. The former is now dedicated to my Kapex 120 as "semi retirement". The CT Midi is what I use with my arsenal of Festool hand-held tools which are all corded. Do note that the CT Midi does support BT for cordless tools, too, or for the clip on transmitter button. Personally, I see no reason for the larger extractors in a woodworking arrangement unless you really, really want to also use them for general cleanup and can benefit from the capacity. I prefer to use a less expensive shop vac for cleanup type tasks and not use the bags in the CTs for that. Now if you intend to to use the boom arm, etc., then buy an extractor that is designed to be compatible with it.

 

[Lincoln]

CT26, M class, is the sweet spot, in my opinion.

 

[onocoffee]

I bought the CT MIDI I a few months ago and was in a similar position to you - trying to decide if I wanted to go cheaper with the CT15 (the same volume as the MIDI) or spend more and go larger (26/36). My dealer was bullish on the MIDI and I'm glad he was. It offers a great feature set with the electronic controls and Bluetooth as well as a compact size. Pretty much everything you might need.

I would say I'm a weekend woodworker (though my schedule allows me to do this hobby during the week) and it took me two months to fill the first bag. Five bags cost $28 and for the 2024 cost of the CT-VA-20 dust separator ($419) and the same usage, it would take me twelve years of using the MIDI and tossing bags every two months to gain the money I would have spent on the CT-VA-20 back. So I remained soft on getting the separator for the MIDI - even though I've got a separator on the 14ga Rigid vac I use for most things around the garage.

But I did find a guy selling a used CT-VA-20 and now it will take me only six years of bags to recoup the cost.

That said, I do limit my MIDI use to sanding and Domino work. Everything else (planer, jointer, general shop cleanup) goes through the Rigid, and that has greater suction for that kind of thing.

 

[Cheese]

I wouldn't consider anything larger than a CT 26. Especially if you're going to add a cyclone there will be little to no need for a larger vac. Remember, at some time the dust bag needs to be wrestled away from the CT and when filled, larger bags are heavier and more problematic to dispose of.

My go to vacs for woodworking are a CT 22, MINI I, MIDI and MIDI I. Those 4 perform 90% of all the vacuuming chores. I also have a CT 36 AC for drywall and cement work and a 57 liter Milwaukee for metal work.

Besides, the larger the vac is, the less often you'll check to see if it's full and that makes "bricking" the dust bag a lot more likely and you don't want that to happen...especially if the bag is 57 liters in size.  [smile]

 

[cpw]

I have a CT26, MIDI and SYS.  I originally got the MIDI because hauling the 26 up and down stairs between the basement and garage was a pain.  The MIDI now stays connected to my Dewalt SCMS; and the 26 is my primary vac that I use for woodworking and remodeling.

The Festool bags are really top notch and emptying the vac is maybe not dust-free, but is not bad at all.  There are third party bags available if you worry about the cost, but as a hobbyist it will take a long time to pay for a separator.  I have not spent the money on a separator.  The thing that fills bags most is routing, and with a 26 I haven't had to replace a bag more than every couple months.

The CT-SYS on the other hand will go through bags super quickly when using it with the track saw to cut sheet goods [I've used a couple in a single day].

 

[sansbury]

OK. This is all great feedback, Midi it is I think.

I'll hold off on the CT-VA cyclone until I get the CNC router set up (it's a 2x4' 2HP one, and will cut as much aluminum and plastic as wood) and see how the Midi handles that. Some owners say it could work, others say I'll want a real dust collector.

If it *can* handle it, then the cyclone makes more sense, otherwise it will take me a long time to go through $500 of bags.

 

[semenza]

Hi,

  Midi or 26 depending on your need to move it around.

  CT- Cyclone only if you will be planing or routing with larger removal bits. But you can always add the cyclone later if you find that you need it.

  No need for the AC unless drywall, concrete or something similar.

Seth

 

[rhoyer]

  No need for the AC unless drywall, concrete or something similar.

This is the reason I own 2 36's. When I bought my first CT 36, I knew there was no way I would ever do drywall. 4 years and a planex purchase later, I regretted not spending the extra $100 the first time. It would've saved me from buying a second CT36, this time the AC.

I should note I also bought an original midi about 40 days before the bluetooth one was announced. While I have upgraded both of my 36's with the Festool bluetooth kit, my midi is still my favorite of the bunch for general purpose work. It's so much lighter and easier to get around it's unbelievable, especially when close to full. I consider selling it, or the non AC 36 all the time and buying a bluetooth midi. It's a great dust extractor.

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I'll hold off on the CT-VA cyclone until I get the CNC router set up (it's a 2x4' 2HP one, and will cut as much aluminum and plastic as wood) and see how the Midi handles that. Some owners say it could work, others say I'll want a real dust collector.

You should not use collection on the CNC when cutting aluminum and other metals. Plastic is fine as obviously wood is, but you need to handle metal differently for safety reasons. You can use the vac for cleanup after the job is complete and enough time has passed to be assured that any chips are completely cold, but not while the CNC is running. The chips take away the heat of cutting...that's why chip-load is so important in CNC work for efficient cutting and not heating up the tooling. Sucking up hot metal is just not a great way to be a happy camper.

 

[sansbury]

I'll hold off on the CT-VA cyclone until I get the CNC router set up (it's a 2x4' 2HP one, and will cut as much aluminum and plastic as wood) and see how the Midi handles that. Some owners say it could work, others say I'll want a real dust collector.

You should not use collection on the CNC when cutting aluminum and other metals.

Yeah, I could have been more clear about that. What I was trying to say was that I'd see if the CT-Midi was a good enough dust collector for machining wood on the small router with the limited amount of wood I'd be doing. I do also have a metal lathe, bandsaw, and full-size VMC to occasionally clean out, but I have a shop vac with a bucket cyclone I could use for that I guess. Those don't need HEAP filtration anyway.

 

[Hipplewm]

The main difference between the CT MDI and the 36/48 is size of the bag.  The spec across the board are the same - the MIDI has built in BT (The brand new CT 36/48 do as well now)
I bought my MIDI on recon and I can buy 2 for the price of a 48 and I figured that I would buy a second MIDI before I was ready for a 48 - but I also have a 2HP dust collecter and cyclone in the shop for the jointer, planer and Table saw.

 

[Coen]

The main difference between the CT MDI and the 36/48 is size of the bag.  [...]

That comes second to it's increased portability. The Midi can be easily carried up stairs, ladders, scaffolding etc. A full 26, let alone a 36 or 48... meeeh, I'd rather not.

The trade off are it's smaller wheels, smaller filter and smaller tank

Also it tends to not fully fill it's bags but instead tends to dump everything on one side till it fills up to the port while leaving a portion of the other side of the bag empty. Never seen that with 22 or 26. You can 'massage' the bag before it gets there to get around that.

And oh; and Midi-I vs 26/36/48 has a different behavior on what it does when turned on manually. Both Midi-I and 26 have the outlet powered when turned on manually. But if you then start drawing power from that outlet, then stop drawing power... the 26 stays on, the Midi-I turns off. And that annoys me to no end.

Imagine this; you connect a dust collection thingy, for example a Festool D 27-BSD to the hose, turn the vac manually on, position the thingy on the wall, take a wired drill, put it in the outlet of the vac, drill the hole, then turn off your drill, put it down and before you are turned around, your dust collection thingy drops to the floor cause the Midi-I turned off.

I never got a definitive answer from Festool saying this was or wasn't the intended consequence. Only that "it sounded" like the circuit board from my Midi-I "was defective" and that I "could send it in for service". However, every Midi-I I have encountered does this stupid sh*t, so sending it in to service would just mean losing the Midi-I for a week and ending up at the same starting point.

The new 26 / 36 / 48 I models with the BT build-in did away with the upgrade slot. So no possibility to even get around that stupid behavior (assuming it's the same as the Midi-I) by installing a permanently-powered outlet with auto-on.

For all I care, the bottom line with the new 26/36/48 is ...  upgrade slot gone, UI worsened, Bluetooth added.  [huh]

 

[mino]

CT 26.

"Go with the knobs."

If end up producing more volume of dust, add a cyclone, be it the CT-VA or the DD from Oneida. Do not add a cyclone on day one (my mistake, now about to sell i on).

For a home user the CT 36 bigger bin is of no practical benefit. The *only* exception is if you still decide to get the AC version, then 36l bin is a must as AC does not work well with shallow bins. Though, for AC, I would argue you want the 48l bin ideally.

/Written by a "home gamer" with a CTM 36 AC and a CT-VA. Doing it again, I would have gotten CTL 26 and saved €500 ... Or gotten the CTM 48 AC, dedicating the 48l bin for AC use and got an additional spare 26L bin (+ a main filter frame) for woodworking use. "Swapping" from AC to bag-use gets old fast ... especially when one has a semi-full bag in the vac one really, really does not want to disturb./

 

[Coen]

I never understood this thing with separate tubs. I would rather have two complete vacs.

 

[Ebuwan]

I have two 36AC's, a 26 and the original corded CT Sys, the Festool Cyclone CT-VA, and the Oneida Dust Deputy that can attach to the top of the extractor.

My first was the 36AC; I bought it brand new with the Original Planex for Drywall, So i needed the AC. Great Dust Extractor; I use it more often with a regular bag and a HEPA filter for woodworking, but handy for the occasional drywall. I also got the Oneida Dust deputy shortly after, and it did an amazing job of taking the bulk of the drywall dust before going into the bin. Also need to consider, the filter for when doing drywall is different from a regular filter; so had to pony up another $100 for a HEPA filter.

Then i got the CT SYS - For the longest time i had regretted that purchase. Over the last 6 months though, I have found it super useful when combined with the Cyclone CT-VA; I use it all the time for the Domino, non-intensive routing etc. The cyclone helps the bag longevity a lot.

I got my second 36AC from FB Marketplace. Super good price on it (sub $400). There was a catch as to why the price; it was used in a Marijuana grow operation, so oh boy oh boy, smelled like Cheech and Chong or just simply walking through NYC, for a while. I usually throw a Little Tree air freshener in it LOL. I did have to get a new HEPA filter though, so add $100 bucks.

I got the 26 because it was such a super good deal along with a bunch of other tools, and the guy wanted it all gone. I REALLY REALLY wanted a MIDI, but i'll live with the 26.

So honestly? End all be all, i'd get an AC version of dust extractor, then you are definitely good for anything. Just keep in mind, the "AC" setup is different that regular bag/HEPA filter setup. The Filter for AC mode is "High Performance" (203759). It's cheaper than a HEPA filter (205412), but it doesn't have the stiff rubber frame around the filter, it's more flexible, allowing the AC "shock" to shake the dust out of it; which leads to the other difference. Its an open top plastic liner that you put in the bin, allowing the filter to be shocked and drop the dust. Looking now though, it seems the 36AC now comes with the HEPA filter by default, this wasn't' the case when i got mine in 2017, it came with the cheaper high performance filter then.

I would lean toward the new extractors as well; the Bluetooth built is is nice; it's like almost $100 bucks to add it to the older style, and you'd have to pry the Bluetooth out of my cold dead hands.

 

[mino]

[member=8955]Coen[/member] .. well, it is a spectrum.

The basic 3 paths for having a vac usable both for Drywalling/Cement/Brick work and Woodworking/Shop use are:

From worst (and cheapest and smallest) to best (most expensive and biggest footprint):

CTL 36 AC + second main filter (for bag use)

switching to AC mode:
- remove the main filter carriage, remove "bag-use" filter from it
- remove the bag full of dust from the tub (!) often impossible without damaging the bag if even half full, the bigger the model, the worse this gets, almost impossible with a CT48 3/4 full bag
- put "bagless-use" main filter into the filter carriage(!) take care to not damage the main filter seals
switching to bag mode:
- remove the main filter carriage, used another vacuum to clean up the "motor unit" bottom from dust
- remove "bagless-use" main filter from the carriage (pretty messy job)
- clean up the bin, ideally want to pressure-wash it, or at least rinse it to remove dust from corners
- place the 1/2 or more full(!) bag back into it (!) likely impossible without damaging the bag if even half full...
- install the "bag-use" main filter into the carriage (!) take care to not damage the main filter seals

Price:
  CTL 36 AC + 2nd main filter (203759) = €860 + €55 => €915 (lower bound of DE prices)
Space used:
  normal CT 36 space

Usage caveats:
- the CT 36 bin is barely deep-enough for AC operation, so needs to be emptied when about 1/2 full for AC to have enough vertical space to work well
- one needs to be careful to not accidentally trigger AC operation (family/colleagues are worst at this) as turning AC on while there is bag inside will damage the bag pretty fast so it stops filtering properly. Easy to see this happened by the bottom of the motor unit being dirty while normally it is pretty clean with bag use.

CT 48 AC + CT 26 tub assembly + second main filter + second main filter carriage (for bag use)

switching to AC mode:
- remove the main filter carriage
- put in "bagless-use" main filter carriage
swithicng to bag mode:
- remove the main filter carriage, used another vacuum to clean up the "motor unit" bottom from dust
- put in "bag-use" main filter carriage

Usage caveats:
- one needs to be careful to not accidentally trigger AC operation (family/colleagues are worst at this) as turning AC on while there is bag inside will damage the bag pretty fast so it stops filtering properly. Easy to see this happened by the bottom of the motor unit being dirty while normally it is pretty clean with bag use.

Price:
  CTL 26 AC + 2nd main filter (203759) + carriage (#496255) + CT48 tub assy (#500328) = €770 + €55 + €25 + €150 => €1000 (lower bound of DE prices)
Space used:
  normal CT 26 space + storage space for the CT 48 tub (one would normally place the light tub assy on a high shelf, along AC-use accessories in it)

CTL 48 AC + CTL 26

swapping to AC mode: - n/a
swapping to bag mode: - n/a
Usage caveats: - n/a

Price:
  CTL 26 AC + CTL 48 - (second hose value) = €770 + €890 - €130 => € 1530 (lower bound of DE prices)
Space used:
  normal CT 26 space + normal CT 48 space

I guess the numbers talk for themselves ... FOR HOME/HOBBY use. A pro can generally justify two vacs, no question there.

 

[Coen]

The 48 tub has ex-VAT price of €130, even in Germany. That makes €155 and that still excludes any shipping and mark-up from dealers. Even Rubart has it at €165 bucks.

With just the tub you end up having an open dust bin around, or having to clean it out every time you switch the motor to the smaller tub. No thanks. Also have to store that filter somewhere. Meh, I'd pay the extra bucks and have the extra motor and hose. At some point the circuit board fails, or the brushes or whatever and you sit with two tubs and no working vac...