CT36 Plug Tap Rating

[flair woodworks]

Steve,

Thanks for getting to the bottom of this for us.  I had the same concern.

 

[Brice Burrell]

That seems quite reasonable and incorporates the common sense aspects of Brice's comments with an appropriate scope limitation.....

The two words in bold are key here.  I mean if Festool vacs could only be used with their smaller sanders don't you think Festool would make that very clear.  Besides, how many posts have you read here about CT extractors bursting into flames...none (well, actually, only one, but that was the dust in the bag, not the extractor itself).

 

[Pete Pedisich]

I have used my CT22 with the OF1400, TS55, Bosch 13amp circular saw, DW 618 Router on a 15amp circuit, never a problem. I never use an extension cord with my CT22 or my 6 gallon compressor, but tradesmen have no choice often.

Anyone know if the 120 vs 240v issue gives us (in the US/Canada) less real world capacity in the tool receptacle on the CT's?

 

[AlexThePalex]

Guys, just get a 230 volts net, all problems solved.  [tongue]

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I have used my CT22 with the OF1400, TS55, Bosch 13amp circular saw, DW 618 Router on a 15amp circuit, never a problem. I never use an extension cord with my CT22 or my 6 gallon compressor, but tradesmen have no choice often.

Anyone know if the 120 vs 240v issue gives us (in the US/Canada) less real world capacity in the tool receptacle on the CT's?

The basic formula is E=IR.  E the voltage, I the current and R the resistance.  Doubling the voltage, halves the current while the internal resistance of the CT remains constant, so makes no difference for current draw of the attached tool.
**  Nobody from Europe has told us what the max amperage draw is on their CT that runs on approx. 230vac.  **

Guys, just get a 230 volts net, all problems solved.  [tongue]

...or forget about using the CT altogether and call Merry Maids when your done.

 

[tbellemare]

Anyone know if the 120 vs 240v issue gives us (in the US/Canada) less real world capacity in the tool receptacle on the CT's?

Yes, unless the wiring between the receptacle and the main power bus in the tool was increased for the NA versions.

If these are wired for (and this is just an example) 2300 watts and 230 volts, that would be 10 amps. If I lower the voltage to 115 volts, the same wiring can still only carry 10 amps, so the power capacity is 1150 watts.

I don't know exactly how they were wired, but I use the example above strictly for demonstrative comparison.

The voltage a conductor can handle is dependent on the insulation and most common wiring I've seen can take 600 volts very safely. The current carrying capacity (sometimes called ampacity) is dependent on the conductor (size, configuration, material, and surrounding). So the wire will limit the current but the insulation won't limit the voltage in this case because the voltage is dropping. If the voltage drops and the current remains the same, the power drops proportionately. 1 watt = 1 volt * 1 amp

I see you posted while I was writing this, Ken. I may be wrong but I don't think the wiring's resistance is significant in this analysis.

Tom

 

[Ken Nagrod]

That's why I was curious as to why no one from Europe or other areas that run on 230vac letting us know what their CT's warning label states and with the CT, it's not just about the external wiring you see but also the internals receiving the full ac power before any step down and rectification.

Also, if anyone is just dying to do the math, when talking about power and alternating current, watts = volts x amps x 1.414  (sine wave).  When dealing with straight direct current it's only w=va.  Sorry for the nerd lesson.

 

[tbellemare]

I hate to make assumptions, but sometimes it helps reason things through... In this case, I'm assuming the receptacle wires directly to the power cord termination, which would mean that wire is the determining factor. Maybe they upgraded it for our lower voltage. That's what I would do.

Tom

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Tom,

In the interest of, well, probably no one, would you be willing to take apart one of your display model CT's so we have an answer.  [tongue] [big grin]

I'm sure like everyone else here, we'll just keep doing what we've been doing and if something trips and if we're smart, we'll change the way we do it.  Happy vacuuming!

 

[Pete Pedisich]

WOW, that stuff is way over my head.

I don't understand electrical, but I do know my CT22 has worked as designed for me for 4 years without an issue! ...maybe I should stop thinking. [big grin]

 

[Michael Kellough]

Power tools have labels indicating how much current they draw but I'm not sure
under what conditions the current is measured. Is the tool idling or working hard at full power?

The vac may draw a certain number of watts when sucking dust off the floor
but when you put your hand over the end of the hose to judge how clogged
the filter bag may be it starts working hard and using a lot more watts.
Which of those conditions is closest to the condition the amperage rating refers to?

We all know simple electric motors take a big gulp of power when they first start up
but the current draw settles down as the reach there no load maximum speed.
Slow start motors don't do that.

Festool's previous generation of CTs waits a sec or two before it starts pulling power
when it is prompted by a tool start. My older Fein Turbo vac starts up simultaneously with the tool.
I think this limits the number of watts the power tool can consume compared to the Festool vacs.
Do the new CTs start quicker so they can't pass through as much power as before or
are the UL guys being more picky than before?

Anyway, the bottom line is still common sense. If the vac's power cord is getting hot
let the tools rest while you find a way to either reduce the resistance (shorter extension cord)
or run the tool on a power supply other than the utility outlet on the vac.

If the power cord doesn't get hot you've nothing to worry about, assuming there isn't some
hidden power choke point inside the vac. that wasn't in the previous generation.

 

[AlexThePalex]

**  Nobody from Europe has told us what the max amperage draw is on their CT that runs on approx. 230vac.  **

That's because we never use amps in relation to power tools like Americans do. We always use watts over here.

That's why I was curious as to why no one from Europe or other areas that run on 230vac letting us know what their CT's warning label states

That's because we don't have any warning labels on our power tools like Americans have. We always just use them until they explode.  [embarassed]

Anyway, I don't know what the limit is on the CT's. I know I have used my 2200 watts CS70 on the CTL Mini, the CTL 22 and the CTL 26 without problems.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

**  Nobody from Europe has told us what the max amperage draw is on their CT that runs on approx. 230vac.  **

That's because we never use amps in relation to power tools like Americans do. We always use watts over here.

That's why I was curious as to why no one from Europe or other areas that run on 230vac letting us know what their CT's warning label states

That's because we don't have any warning labels on our power tools like Americans have. We always just use them until they explode.  [embarassed]

Anyway, I don't know what the limit is on the CT's. I know I have used my 2200 watts CS70 on the CTL Mini, the CTL 22 and the CTL 26 without problems.

THANK YOU

 

[jmbfestool]

**  Nobody from Europe has told us what the max amperage draw is on their CT that runs on approx. 230vac.  **

That's because we never use amps in relation to power tools like Americans do. We always use watts over here.

That's why I was curious as to why no one from Europe or other areas that run on 230vac letting us know what their CT's warning label states

That's because we don't have any warning labels on our power tools like Americans have. We always just use them until they explode.  [embarassed]

Anyway, I don't know what the limit is on the CT's. I know I have used my 2200 watts CS70 on the CTL Mini, the CTL 22 and the CTL 26 without problems.

+1 What Alex said!  

I got a personal message from Ken Nagrod asking what the Amps was on it  its on the warning sticker!  I couldnt remember a warning sticker so I just had a look and nope their aint one!  We in europe dont care about that stuff! lol Like alex said bang a plug in and see what happens! Hey we run 240V! You Americans run 115! We clearly dont care we just want more power! Untill health and saftey steps in and makes usgo down to 110V I dont kno why England does not just run 110V such awaist of energy converting all the time with these little transformers on site.

JMB

 

[jmbfestool]

Oh I see Ken!  You say Thank you to Alex and not me!  I told you der was no sticker!!!!  Instead you tried to make me take my CT apart and have alook inside ! [tongue]

JMB

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Thanks JMB.  I'll help you put it back together  [huh].

 

[ADKMedic]

This may be a silly question, but if the tool and vac combination were drawing too much power off of a 15Amp circuit, wouldn't/shouldn't the circuit breaker trip way before there was a fire risk???

Andy

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Andy,

There are usually  a lot of safetys in place.  Most of the time those work perfectly.  There's always the chance something could go wrong since every location is different and not every factor is forseeable.  Wow, I should have been a lawyer!  Get my point?  Play it smart by making sure your safetys work like the breaker and like previously stated, use common sense.  Definitely don't continue if you feel the cords are hot, smell smoke, the tools slow down, etc.  The Festools have protection as well.  And try not to be a worry wart about it.  Otherwise you'll never get anything done.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

There is a very good reason why Festool is silent in this discussion, and that is because if they made any comment beyond what is printed on the sticker, they would lose the UL listing for the vac.

The reason for the amperage limitation sticker on the vac is directly related to the UL requirement for vacuums with external power receptacles, coupled with the absence of the NEMA 5-15 to 5-20 adapter tail that was previously available. These conditions mathematically mandate the value shown on the sticker. I won't publicly contradict this mathematical value for the same reason Festool won't. However, someone asked about the internal wiring of the vac and what it could withstand. The simple answer is that the internal wiring of the vac can withstand the full amperage of the circuit without sustaining damage.

 

[Jeff Zanin]

Interesting comments from Rick regarding the UL considerations.  Now I get why there will never be an official response.

This not the first time we have seen unusual outcomes regarding availability, specification, documentation and other non-operational aspects of equipment from UL.  My favorite Festool example of this is the vac sys.

It is hard for me to understand or believe that tools and equipment that not only meet CE requirements but are in regular use in Europe and other parts of the world somehow become unsafe, unsuitable or unsatisfactory when they are "evaluated" by UL for use in North America.  The only explanation I can think of is that the U.S. is a more litigious society and that the UL requirements and process are an attempt to minimize exposure to lawsuits.

I appreciate the concept but I find UL approval less than credible when I look at some of the unbelievably cheap, poorly made, flimsy, flakey, etc. items (many from Asia) that somehow achieve UL approval.  To me this indicates some issues with competence and / or integrity in the process.

For the CT36 I can see there may be a different power rating in NA compared to Europe due to voltage differences and "the UL requirement for vacuums with external power receptacles" (ref. UL 1017 4.4.1.4 [ISBN 1-55989-191-2] – it is available online but is copyrighted so I will not provide the link here).

Jeff