Current Cabinet Finishing Project

[Scott B.]

Here is a current project that my colleague Todd and I have been teaming on this week. It is a rather comprehensive wall unit complete with panelized arch and window bench.

I am sharing video of the project to show a glimpse of primer, in between coat prep and then final spray stages. The spraying is done with waterborne paint and primer shot through an air assisted airless. I know alot of people are looking at waterborne alternatives for cabinet grade work, so please feel free to comment or ask questions.

Cabinet Grade Spraying with Waterborne Paint and Primer

 

[benwhaley80]

How do you like your graco sprayer?

 

[Scott B.]

Ben

I like the 395 alot. We purchased it in late 2010 through our local Sherwin Williams and the only thing we have had to do is repack the g40 gun once. We have done a couple of modifications to it as well. Its a great sprayer for production work as well as fine finish. We have put a ton of miles on it, and it reatains cabinet grade finish status both in our shop and in the field. We have other Graco models as well, and they are built to a high standard, and are backed by very good customer service.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Scott, VT is the nicest state in the country. Ive been skiing there and visiting in the summers for 25 years. My wife and i got married at the Woodstock Inn. But lets get down to business. I have the 395 and have used it with the fine tip to redo kitchen cabs before, but i mostly use it to spray popcorn ceilings, so im not a pro with it. I would like to use it for built ins which we are doing more of. I keep it real clean and try to spray light coats, like a robotic arm. Any sugestions to make me more confident? I currently brush and mini roll my built ins, thanks Eric

 

[Scott B.]

Eric

I agree about vt. Love it. Glastonbury is a nice area as well. I had relatives there, a great aunt and uncle, who have passed but remember going there several times.

Is your 395 a finish pro - as in air assisted, with an onboard compressor and separate fluid/air lines going from the pump to the gun? And the gun is a G40?

If so, you are sitting on the most overqualified popcorn ceiling weapon in the whole wide world.

There are different 395 models and not all are air assisted. Does it look like this?

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If yours is a 395 Finish Pro, I will gladly walk you through fluid and air setting basics in relation to product, and also tip selection. These are the 3 variables for fine spraying with this machine.

 

[Scott B.]

I've had a couple of questions come in via personal message, which I wanted to add to this thread.

- tip size in the video was 315
- material unreduced

 

[peter halle]

Scot,

Thanks for all your advice in these types of posts.  I am on my way to the shop in a couple of hours to work on another aquarium stand and will be shooting Impervo on one that is completed using my HVLP.

PS - I had been using BM Advance but the recoat and open wetness time has been killing me.  I like the Impervo much better.

Peter

 

[benwhaley80]

Which tips do you use to spray clear and tinted lacquer?

 

[Scott B.]

Scot,

Thanks for all your advice in these types of posts.  I am on my way to the shop in a couple of hours to work on another aquarium stand and will be shooting Impervo on one that is completed using my HVLP.

PS - I had been using BM Advance but the recoat and open wetness time has been killing me.  I like the Impervo much better.

Peter

Peter

Yes, the Advance is great on horizontals, lays down beautifully, but on verts it can pop at the last second just when you think its going to hang on, it grows legs and runs away. The open time on that is a bit much. 314 is very user friendly and a nice finish.

 

[Scott B.]

Which tips do you use to spray clear and tinted lacquer?

Ben,

I'm not into lacquers so much lately, so do not have them calibrated for air assisted whatsoever. But for clears in general, I prefer a much smaller orifice than the 315 used here. 311 is nice for lower viscosities.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Scott, i thought mine was the 395. My assistant is actually using it today for a side job. I will get the product number when he is done. I would love to see what you thought of mine for built ins. Like I said I have done a few cabs where we brushed the carcasses and sprayed doors and drawer fronts. Clients, one of which is my friend have been thrilled with how they held up. We used Liquid Sandz, BullsEye 123, and Waterborne Satin Impervo. I am interested in any knowledge you are willing to kick down. One of my closest friends lives in the woods in Starksboro outside of Btown, thanks Eric

 

[Scott B.]

Scott, i thought mine was the 395. My assistant is actually using it today for a side job. I will get the product number when he is done. I would love to see what you thought of mine for built ins. Like I said I have done a few cabs where we brushed the carcasses and sprayed doors and drawer fronts. Clients, one of which is my friend have been thrilled with how they held up. We used Liquid Sandz, BullsEye 123, and Waterborne Satin Impervo. I am interested in any knowledge you are willing to kick down. One of my closest friends lives in the woods in Starksboro outside of Btown, thanks Eric

Eric,

Yes, follow up when you are able to. Happy to help you maximize the machine.

Starksboro is nice country. I lived out that way for a couple of years back in the 90s.

 

[tiralie]

It is a rather comprehensive wall unit complete with panelized arch and window bench.

Nice work Scott. That wet film looks "puurdy".  I am still not sold on Graco, but you guys make it look real easy  [big grin].
Just wondering why you pick/used BM 46 and Impervo for this project?
Do you know (approx.) what your wet film thickness was?
I have been pleasantly surprised by resiliency of un-thined BM Impervo .
I left a sample on MDF outside (snow, rain sun etc.) for the last 4 months and it's still holding up.
You cannot scratch or mark it with your nail, and other than the unfinished ends there is no noticeable swelling of the MDF.

Tim

 

[Scott B.]

It is a rather comprehensive wall unit complete with panelized arch and window bench.

Nice work Scott. That wet film looks "puurdy".  I am still not sold on Graco, but you guys make it look real easy  [big grin].
Just wondering why you pick/used BM 46 and Impervo for this project?
Do you know (approx.) what your wet film thickness was?
I have been pleasantly surprised by resiliency of un-thined BM Impervo .
I left a sample on MDF outside (snow, rain sun etc.) for the last 4 months and it's still holding up.
You cannot scratch or mark it with your nail, and other than the unfinished ends there is no noticeable swelling of the MDF.

Tim

Hey Tim

Thanks for your kind words.

I used the 046/314 product combo primarily because it is the same combo we are using throughout the house - its a large new build.

Heres why I chose the combo for the project:

046:
- 046 is good by brush and sprayer
- dries fast
- provides solid base for paint color and seals grain well
- sands to powder
- can power sand without breaking through
- low odor and water cleanup

314:
- perfect satin sheen
- brushes and sprays well
- all the trim is a shade of white, which this product excels in
- coating is hard when cured but still feels soft
- good open time, but tacks up in a reasonable amount of time
- low odor
- integrates nicely between trim package and built in cabinetry for continuity
- easy on equipment and water cleanup

These are all critical considerations in my work.

As to mil thickness, BM recommends 3.8 wet with 314. Anytime we check it we are a bit in excess of that, which I prefer, because I know its capabilities. Like most of us, having learned in oil, the rule of the thumb that I follow is to keep putting it on until it doesnt want anymore. That is completely determined in the verticals. We push it right to the edge where it just about wants to bust loose. Which is why inside the carcasses with the gun, there is alot of layering going on. Tack coat on top of tack coat and it all levels together, as long as everything is in a similar stage of "wet" while being layered. Of course its complicated by the beaded back panels. Not too hard to end up with puddles at the bottoms of those. That was the tricky part about this whole unit. The tops on the base units and the tops on the window bench. I want considerably more material on those than on the verts. That is the beauty of aaa...nice balance of piston pump pressure with hvlp gun refinement and with a smaller piece in your hand.

I still love hvlp, but it would have been much more difficult to do cabinet grade of this scale with.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Scott, my assistant just returned and we have a 390 with fine finish tip. The paint store I use in CT is considered to be the best in the state for the past forty years and the guys there really know what they are doing. I basically got it bc of its portability. I would love to hear what you think about its capabilities? My assistant does all our painting and actually sells some of his murals at the local art shows. Thanks Eric

 

[Scott B.]

Scott, my assistant just returned and we have a 390 with fine finish tip. The paint store I use in CT is considered to be the best in the state for the past forty years and the guys there really know what they are doing. I basically got it bc of its portability. I would love to hear what you think about its capabilities? My assistant does all our painting and actually sells some of his murals at the local art shows. Thanks Eric

Eric

The 390 is a very good machine. It is a straight airless rig, which means it is not air assisted (does not have onboard compressor), so it isnt quite capable of the same level of fine finish as an air assisted machine. A fine finish tip helps, but the gun is a standard contractor gun that is most comfortable in the higher end of the pressure range. Because of this it excels at spraying larger more wide open surfaces like drywall. Prior to purchasing our 395, I used to use our airless with a fine finish tip for spraying trim paint on doors and cabinet parts and pieces. You can definitely do it, but its more practical if you can do it with the pieces laying horizontally. It is easy to overload verticals with an airless because it just isnt as comfortable in the lower pressure ranges. This causes you to want to back off from the surface, and not be able to get as close or go inside for detail work, which leads to more overspray and airborne mist settling on surfaces that are already wet. You have to boogie with it to make it work. So, its not ideal for a project like the cabinet unit in my video. It would be really hard to go inside cabinet boxes with airless. There would be alot of blowback and bounce, and the corners would be inclined to get very heavy and likely curtain.

I would continue to use it exactly as you have been. If you find yourself doing enough cabinet work to justify the cost of air assisted, then air assisted would definitely pay for itself. If not, it is difficult to justify the fact that it costs about 3 times as much. The gun alone on a 395 costs about as much as the entire 390 system. The 390 is a good all around machine. We have a 395 straight airless on a skid as well, which would be almost identical to yours, but with just a bit more power, and it is great for production spraying, like walls and ceilings.

I do know alot of painters who get really good at doing trim finishes with an airless/ff tip configuration. You have to be a really skilled sprayer to excel in that area. Ultimately, the 395 air assisted makes it more effortless and efficient. The 390 is a classiic, and very popular machine though.

 

[ericbuggeln]

Scott, you totally just summed up all my fears and concerns with using it for cabs. Especially when my assistant doesnt use it everyday. When I have sprayed cab doors, they have always been on sawhorses, not in place. I love building cabs with all my Festools, but home remodeling pays the bills now, so the 390 is doing okay. I will have talk to you about taking the next step when the economy returns. We did this unit with brush and mini roller with Waterborne Satin Impervo. I was too concerned with the sprayer not working well in the tight corners, thanks Eric

 

[Scott B.]

Eric,

Great looking project!

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Hey Scott,
 Great video as always.  One comment though is that you often use technology that almost no carpenters/builders would be able to justify let alone the DIY crowd.  In my area I only know one painter who has a AAA setup, and talking to the manager at Sherwin Williams he only has sold a few sense the technology was released a couple years ago.  

I can see it as a big advantage, and if I was a painter I would not hesitate.  As a carpenter already owning a HVLP and airless setup it does not make sense to me.

Anyways, would love to see you shoot some videos with more common setups.  Could you get near the finish you applied with a Proshot Fine Finish?  How about a HVLP with a large tip?  I know I wouldn't try it with my standard Proshot, which would probably leave me with double the coats on my 4 stage HVLP.

Also curious why you choose acrylic over a tinted lacquer.  Do you blow off, vac, or wipe down after sanding?

Thanks again for the time you invest in these videos.

 

[Scott B.]

Hey Kevin

Thanks for the kind words.

Now...that would be like me saying: "as a painter, it would be difficult to justify the cost of a Kapex or a TS, when I already have a decent compound slide and a benchsaw with a good blade..."

Like alot of carpenters who crossover into spraying and painting, I am a painter who crosses over into some carpentry and woodworking. So, I think its important when one trade wanders over to the other, to see where the bar is and what the range of possibilities are. Also, you may be surprised at how much festool the diy is able to afford and justify even in comparison to the pro crowd.

To answer your question, I show alot with air assisted because, while it is an expensive machine, it is the most versatile across the board. The technology itself has been around for decades, not sure when the 395 was launche, but pretty sure its been a bit more than a couple of years.

I purchased mine at SW in fall 2010 because I had a very, very large custom cabinet project and there was no way I was going to do it a quart at a time. The aaa paid for itself on that first job. Just by way of comparison, there is no way I would look at the cabinet in the video with a ps fine finish. Just not refined or efficient enough.

To your question about product, I was an early adaptor to the ultra premium waterbornes back in '07. As a paint contractor who paints the whole house, and mostly in custom work, I really think its important to have one finish that can do the entire trim package as well as the cabinets and builtins, because they are so often integrated...crown, base and shoe run through them. It gets a little choppy if there is not continuity in finish. I am in the fortunate position of being able to specify materials on our projects, and have found for the past few years that this approach is best for the work we do. Other contractors mileage may vary on all of this, but I still enjoy sharing and being involved in discussions like this.