Currently have a 12" Dewalt, looking at a 10" Kapex

[ethanmaloy98]

Decent time lurker, First time poster.

Good morning FOG,

So I have a Dewalt 12" miter saw with more issues than I can fix, It's not flat, not straight, and cannot be squared. I am looking at 2 saws, the Makita LS1219L(12"), and the Kapex. Overall I really like the Kapex more than the Makita for more than just the brand name but there is one hangup for me. I cannot decide if that vertical cut capacity is to small. I mostly do small jewlerly box pieces and build various shop tables as needed. I have never really needed more than 3.5-4" of vertical cut capacity and can't think of one. But I have a nagging feeling I am forgetting or overlooking something. Wanted to post here and see if anyone has been in a similar position, or has some questions that I can point myself in the right direction with.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Packard]

I don’t know how that happened.  My 12” DeWalt miter saw is accurate and square.  The stamped steel indexing is inherently more accurate than the as-cast detents in other saws I looked at at the time I made my purchase.  I did not look at a Festool chop saw.  How are they indexing the angles?

 

[ethanmaloy98]

I don’t know how that happened.  My 12” DeWalt miter saw is accurate and square.  The stamped steel indexing is inherently more accurate than the as-cast detents in other saws I looked at at the time I made my purchase.  I did not look at a Festool chop saw.  How are they indexing the angles?

The indexing angles are solid, but without the square fence they just are not quite right no matter how much I have tried to calibrate everything.

Not entirely sure what happened, might have been bad from the factory. I took the saw over from the person in the shop before me. Its a good saw if I am not trying to do fine work with it. The other reason for upgrading is to build a miter saw station and have a saw that has a fixed back position for building a dust collection box.

 

[ChuckM]

The Kapex REB is a 12" miter saw.

 

[ethanmaloy98]

The Kapex REB is a 12" miter saw.

Which one has a 12" blade?  The only ones I have found have a 10.25" blade. With my concern about losing 2 vertical inches to the makita, I would love to look at the 12" blade if there is one.

 

[ChuckM]

Oops. Sorry, I thought you were referring to the cutting depth.

 

[mino]

I don’t know how that happened.  My 12” DeWalt miter saw is accurate and square.  The stamped steel indexing is inherently more accurate than the as-cast detents in other saws I looked at at the time I made my purchase.  I did not look at a Festool chop saw.  How are they indexing the angles?

TLDR:
For the record, the only "Festool chop saws" around would be the SYMMETRIX series saws which are NAINA I believe.

----
As for square/not.
I believe it is important to note that the KAPEX' is mostly distinguished by Festool firstly guaranteeing a certian level of precission of the bed and fences. Secondly by the whole saw being designed accuracy-first dow to the details like the gandle being in same plane as the blade.

The issue with other "normal" makers is their definition of "accurate" is way lower spec compared to what Festool is shooting for. This makes it a lottery if one gets a trully square piece but a lottery can be won at times too. The second question comes with one's needs.

KAPEX is "shooting for" cabinetry accuracy when used with care. Most sliders around are going for carpentry use as their target market.

As for accuracy of angles ... there is a reason Festool includes the angle-transfer accessory with the Kapex. It is precisely so one does not have to rely on the build-in scale when absolute accuracy is required. Yet most people do not use it ... it is just so overkill in normal use.

 

[mino]

Which one has a 12" blade?  The only ones I have found have a 10.25" blade. With my concern about losing 2 vertical inches to the makita, I would love to look at the 12" blade if there is one.

The Kapex 120 uses indeed a 260 mm blade. However it has a special mode for cutting crown moldings and other pieces which one wants/needs to place vertically to the fence. This allows up to 120 mm (43/4") high cuts with the saw operating in a "chop saw" mode for this.

This allows it to "compete with" 12" saws for the casual carpentry tasks.

This is also the distinction of the KAPEX 88 in Europe which does not have this "special" mode and is cheaper by it. From the name, the full-depth cutting capacity is 88 x 305 mm aka 31/2" x 12". The 12" may come also from that in some places.

Check the comprehensive table under "technical data" on festool.com, the cut possibilities are described way better than the US site:https://www.festool.com/products/se...compound-mitre-saws/575302---ks-120-reb#Usage

To not repeat what was written here ofver KAPEX counless times, your best bet is to check out some Youtube videos from Peter Parfit and the likes to get a bit better glimpse of what the saw is about.

I advise *against* comparison videos with other makes as they mostly focus on raw performance which is not a metric KAPEX is aimed at - i.e. those comparisons make little sense. If one needs a good-enough carpentry slider, one should not look at KAPEX to begin. And when one looks for accuracy, those carpentry-focused comparisons are a waste of time at best while misleading at worst.

EDIT: link to festool.com with details of cut capacity

 

[ChuckM]

Regardless of what the factory settings are from Festool, check everything when it arrives. From time to time, I also check or reset the bevel setting with an inclinometer, or simply use the inclinometer to set any odd angles. I often use the bevel to cut miters by laying the piece flat on the turntable.

[attachimg=1]

 

[glass1]

If portability is not a concern the Makita is a good choice. But it’s 70lbs.

 

[Ebuwan]

i went from a 12" Dewalt non-slider to the Kapex 120. The DeWalt was very accurate, but going to a slider, at the time, Kapex had the best footprint, didn't need a ton of clearance in the back.

I love that thing, I have zero regrets. Not having dust blast in yer face was worth price of admission IMO.

I found for taller moldings, just have to cut it  laying flat and swing the blade down to 45. Doesn't feel as "safe" but it comes with a hold down for a reason.

 

[Bencan]

I went from dewalt to the kapex and have no regrets. However I don’t consider it to be more accurate necessarily than my previous saw. I don’t miss the vertical cut capacity or having a 12” blade. The dust control is underwhelming but better than average for sure. My favourite features of the saw are the compactness, I also really like the handle. Best part for sure thought is the integrated stand which I really think sets the tool apart from anything else on the market

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[morts10n]

I have had two Kapex saws separated by about 4 years...both motors burned up...both rebuilt...I replaced one with a Makita LS 1019...and it was much more accurate, with perhaps 1.5 " more vertical cut capacity...a much better saw for less than half the money but a bit more heavy....btw I am 80% Festool

 

[cpw]

I have a 12" Dewalt, which I'm fairly happy with aside from it being really heavy.  I switched stands to one that the saw detaches from; which at least makes the two pieces around 50-60lbs; together it was over 100lbs which was really tough getting into and out of my truck if I'm working away from home on a rental or another house.

I'm a DIYer, so don't use these every day; but I can get much better results with a vertical cut on my Dewalt or older non-sliding saw because I'm not fighting gravity to get the precise angle I want.  I upgraded to the 12" slider from a 10" fixed model to handle the 5 1/4" base that I put in my house, the Kapex wouldn't cut that vertically so I went with the Dewalt.

Later on, I've seen the Kapex has an adjustment knob for the compound angle, which looks like it should make it easier to get good results on the flat.  That might make the vertical cut height less important for you; but someone who has the Kapex might be able to chime in if they find that to be the case.

 

[CumminsDiesel]

No issues with my Dewalt miter saw.
I read so many issues with Festool Kapex.

 

[mino]

No issues with my Dewalt miter saw.
I read so many issues with Festool Kapex.

Please do note that people have different standards.
One expects .. more from a $1500 saw than from a $800 one.

Case in point:
When I bought my Makita LS 1040 10" chopsaw (non-slider) I DID NOT expect:
- the fence to be straight => it is not, there is about 0.1" bend in the vertical fence, the bed is 0.05" lower than the cast "wings" ..
- the saw to be smooth => it is not, the saw motor "starting" is jerky enough to move an unclamped piece ..

Yet, I cannot complain.
Both are non-issues at €250 for the saw. Would I accept such from a €1500 one? Nope!

People will "complain" about a 0.02" deviation from the KAPEX and spend days trying to calibrate-it-out. The same people would accept cuts that are 0.05" off as "OK" from a Dewalt or a Makita slider.

..
One can read a lot more owner complains about the serviceability of a $ 100k BMW than about a $ 30k Volkswagen. Guess which is a better car to drive.

 

[@bazaba]

I have both dewalt 12" slider which I retrofit a light into for shadow line, and bought a kapex about 6 years later. The footprint of the kapex is awesome, smooth start (dewalt bucked like crazy), and accuracy is good also. The only thing I wish the kapex had was a light instead of lasers. I have only used the dewalt for onsite work and kapex for shop. The first time I had to carry the dewalt up 3 flights of stairs, I was already kicking myself by not bringing the kapex but I did not want to risk it getting damaged or stolen. I got the UG cart with the wings and it folds up so small but it is hardly ever folded up due to its permanent spot in the shop. I agree with the fellow that replied with a car analogy, it truly is better to drive a BMW, at least to me. The kapex is a big investment but for me it was worth it and still is, as I use a miter saw a lot. I forgot to add that I have not missed any vertical cut depth or width by switching to kapex.