Cutting off the dust collector's 20A plug and replacing it with a 15A plug

[peter halle]

I won't mention how many sets of dykes I have ruined over the years.

For those who may not understand the word dykes in this post, dykes is a common term for the pliers used by electricians here in the US.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I guess I could have called them lineman's. [scratch chin]

I have a bunch of Wiss snips missing at least one of the tips too!! [big grin]

 

[Corwin]

The sad state of affairs is that most wall circuits are on a 20 amp breaker, but have 15 amp outlets.  The 15/20 combination outlet used to be fairly standard.  They're still pretty easy to come by, you just have to look a tiny bit wider than the tunnel vision that locks onto the familiar.

I rewired a couple of the outlets in my shop and keep the dongle handy for any trips out of the shop.

Hadn't ever considered that I might have tunnel vision...  I have seen the 15/20 combos as you describe, but very rarely.  Maybe this is an east coast thing --  I live in Washington state, and from what I've seen this is something that is not used much here.

 

[JohnDistai]

I probably would have got a warning for that...

 

[peter halle]

I probably would have got a warning for that...

that?

 

[Inner10]

I guess I could have called them lineman's. Scratching Chin

Then you would be talking about a different tool.  Dikes = Diagonal Cutters = Diags, in Canada we refer to Diagonal Cutters as "Side Cutters".

These are Dikes:

Linesman's Pliers:

...Ok back on topic

 

[Inner10]

For those who may not understand the word dykes in this post, dykes is a common term for the pliers used by electricians here in the US.

Peter I'm not trying to be picky here but in the US "dykes" is a somewhat derogatory slang term for a lesbian (or in this case; the plural form would be lesbians)...dikes are diagonal cutting pliers.

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

so I suck at spelling, and using the right tool for the task!!

 

[jeffinsgf]

The sad state of affairs is that most wall circuits are on a 20 amp breaker, but have 15 amp outlets.  The 15/20 combination outlet used to be fairly standard.  They're still pretty easy to come by, you just have to look a tiny bit wider than the tunnel vision that locks onto the familiar.

I rewired a couple of the outlets in my shop and keep the dongle handy for any trips out of the shop.

Hadn't ever considered that I might have tunnel vision...  I have seen the 15/20 combos as you describe, but very rarely.  Maybe this is an east coast thing --  I live in Washington state, and from what I've seen this is something that is not used much here.

They're on the shelf at the big boxes here.  They're not at eye level, though.  Usually on the lower shelf, and they're a tad more expensive, but they're also much better quality.  The gray ones (institutional grade) are the best.  My BIL is a pharmacist.  Several years ago he worked in a hospital and got me some hospital grade receptacles. When someone "pulls the plug", they've really got to tug.  [eek]  Those things are tough.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

And they have been code in in kitchen outlets for decades in USA.  My understanding is that Festool chose to equip their vacuum machines with wiring rated for 20A in USA because of the combined power requirements of the vacuum and e.g. a TS 55 or OF 1400 router which together can easily exceed 15A at 120 VAC.

Dave R.

The NEMA 5-20 plug on the CT-class vacuums is a UL requirement due to the potential load the vac "could" draw with a large tool connected to it. However, it is actually a very shortsighted and bureaucratic rule by UL because it does not conform to the rules set forth in the NEC.

Contrary to both of Dave's postings, there is no requirement in the National Electric Code for 20 amp duplex receptacles on 20 amp circuits, and that includes kitchens. The only difference between a NEMA 5-15 and 5-20 receptacle is the front face. The internal components of the outlet are mandated to be rated at 20 amp capacity, because under the NEC, both 15 and 20 amp outlets are permitted on 20 amp circuits. In many cases, the internal contacts are identical, and you can even see the rotated receiver of a 20 amp device behind the plastic configured as 15 amp.

I did not see the original posting before it was removed, and even though Festool does not condone such a modification to the cord on the vacuum, I am disappointed that Peter removed the entire posting. It would be more appropriate to note that the modification is not approved.

 

[JohnDistai]

>Contrary to both of Dave's postings, there is no requirement in the National Electric Code for 20 amp duplex receptacles on 20 amp >circuits, and that includes kitchens. The only difference between a NEMA 5-15 and 5-20 receptacle is the front face. The internal >components of the outlet are mandated to be rated at 20 amp capacity, because under the NEC, both 15 and 20 amp outlets are >permitted on 20 amp circuits. In many cases, the internal contacts are identical, and you can even see the rotated receiver of a 20 >amp device behind the plastic configured as 15 amp.

Another "that figures".  I just replaced all the receptacles in my kitchen with 20amp ones because it was wired for 20a but had 15a receptacles.  More needless waste.

 

[Wood_Junkie]

For those who may not understand the word dykes in this post, dykes is a common term for the pliers used by electricians here in the US.

Peter I'm not trying to be picky here but in the US "dykes" is a somewhat derogatory slang term for a lesbian (or in this case; the plural form would be lesbians)...dikes are diagonal cutting pliers.

I'm pretty sure this is WHY Peter posted a follow-up explaining the tool term, albeit spelled as incorrectly as the first reference.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

>Contrary to both of Dave's postings, there is no requirement in the National Electric Code for 20 amp duplex receptacles on 20 amp >circuits, and that includes kitchens. The only difference between a NEMA 5-15 and 5-20 receptacle is the front face. The internal >components of the outlet are mandated to be rated at 20 amp capacity, because under the NEC, both 15 and 20 amp outlets are >permitted on 20 amp circuits. In many cases, the internal contacts are identical, and you can even see the rotated receiver of a 20 >amp device behind the plastic configured as 15 amp.

Another "that figures".  I just replaced all the receptacles in my kitchen with 20amp ones because it was wired for 20a but had 15a receptacles.  More needless waste.

John,

I apologize if my previous posts were not adequately clear.  I did not intend to communicate that 20A rated receptacles must be used on a branch circuit fitted with 20A rated wire (12 gauge) and a 20A circuit breaker in the service box.  It is clearly acceptable to use a receptacle or a circuit breaker of lower rated amperage than the wiring used for a particular circuit, but not vice versa.

I also recommend that anyone planning on making changes to any wiring/receptacles proceed cautiously and for safety's sake have a professional electrician do the work if you have any reservations about your own knowledge and skill in this area.  Jeffinsgf posted that most wall circuits are on a 20A breaker, i.e. wired for 20A branch capacity.  That is not the case where I live (NE Ohio), at least not in homes constructed in the 1970s or earlier.  Back then in my area, most branch circuits with multiple wall receptacles were wired with 14 gauge wire and rated only 15A maximum.  They even allowed aluminum branch circuit wiring in houses back in the 1970s, which had its own problems if the install not properly handled.  (I have experienced some of those even though the original work was professionally installed and inspected.)  My advice is to check the size and type of the branch circuit wire at the service box and the outlet before changing the receptacle from 15A rated to 20A rated!!

Dave R.

 

[peter halle]

For those who may not understand the word dykes in this post, dykes is a common term for the pliers used by electricians here in the US.

Peter I'm not trying to be picky here but in the US "dykes" is a somewhat derogatory slang term for a lesbian (or in this case; the plural form would be lesbians)...dikes are diagonal cutting pliers.

I'm pretty sure this is WHY Peter posted a follow-up explaining the tool term, albeit spelled as incorrectly as the first reference.

Yes, I was trying to make it clear that the word choice was about a pair of cutters used by electricians.  In our international forum common phrases in one country may to totally misunderstood in another.  I don't use either of those words in my conversations or writings.  I should have checked the spelling before I posted.   [oops]

My apologies to all.  

 

[tbellemare]

there is no requirement in the National Electric Code for 20 amp duplex receptacles on 20 amp circuits

It is true that 15-amp receptacles are allowed on a 20-amp circuit if there is more than one receptacle on the circuit. If a 20-amp circuit has only one receptacle, a 20-amp receptacle is required. The minimum wiring for any 20-amp circuit is 12 AWG copper. A 15-amp circuit can use 14 AWG copper.

In some jurisdictions, no 14 AWG wiring is permitted. I happen to live in one of those jurisdictions. It is directly contrary to the NEC but the local enforcers are probably afraid that someone will run 14 AWG and use a 20-amp breaker with 15-amp outlets. If you buy a typical pre-populated distribution panel, it will likely be populated with 20-amp breakers.

To be a little clearer, when I say a 15 or 20-amp circuit, I am describing the rating of the breaker or fuse.

For bathroom, garage, kitchen countertop, and outside outlets, a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupter) is also required.

Tom

 

[Inner10]

It is true that 15-amp receptacles are allowed on a 20-amp circuit if there is more than one receptacle on the circuit. If a 20-amp circuit has only one receptacle, a 20-amp receptacle is required. The minimum wiring for any 20-amp circuit is 12 AWG copper. A 15-amp circuit can use 14 AWG copper.

Tom you are right on the money.

A 20A outlet is fine on a 15A circuit, the 15A breaker protects that.

15A outlets are fine on a 20A circuit as long as there is more then one plug.  Look at the plug, most are 20A "Feed Through" rated.  That is why we see 15A GFIC on 20A circuits and vice-versa.

I really don't think modifying your plug is that criminal but it is unnecessary and devalues the unit.  Wrap some electrical tape on the dongle and call it a day. 

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

You said dongle again,  that is a funny name.  [big grin]

 

[applecollector]

Interesting - my festool dust collector came with a 15a/20a adaptor!

 

[Inner10]

Interesting - my festool dust collector came with a 15a/20a adaptor!

This entire thread is about disposing of that and replacing the 20A end with a 15A........

 

[JohnDistai]

Dave,

No problem.  I replaced those receptacles years ago.  20a receptacles on 20a circuits with 12/2.  That's how I thought it was supposed to be.  If I run across some other receptacles that need replacing and I find 12/2 behind it, I'll reconsider what to use since if I remember correctly the 20a receptacles were more expensive.