Cutting thick boards/posts square.

[Deke]

For some reason I am doing a lot of projects, from a workbench to out door stuff, where I need to cut 4x4s or other thick pieces to length. What is driving me absolutely nuts is I cannot get a square end cut with my Hitachi 12" compound miter saw - not sliding. (Hint: the real purpose of this post is to convince me that what I really need is the Kapex and that it will be my one major too purchase this year and give me a miter saw for life). I joint these boards, make absolutely sure things are square and level, cut slow and yet every time, the cut isn't just off, it actually has a little curve to it - so anything resting on top of these pieces (such as a top of some type) has issues. Of course sanding, planing end grain flat is very hard. Could it be that the blade (a Frued - mid range) is actually flexing? Or could it also be the lousy saw?

Kapex or not, do good high quality miter saws and/or blades not have this an issue? Is it too much to ask for a little precision from a miter saw? I don't think it should be.

 

[jonny round boy]

Deke,

The Kapex won't (quite) cut 4x4" timber. In fact, I don't think any 10" slider will - you'd need to go to a 12" blade for that.

 

[Theshipstore]

I would try some blade stabilizers, similar to those used on table saws. It sound like the 12" blade is flexing on the cut
At the very least it couldn't hurt to try

 

[norwegian wood]

the 4x4 material in the states measures 3-1/2" and the kapex will cut it if that is the type of 4x4's you are cutting.

but it sounds like you are getting some blade deflection that can happen from either w thin kerf blade that might be a little dull and it deflects at the start of the cut. a stiffer blade may or a blade stabilizer if you can get one on your miter saw. not sure if you can get them all on all saws i have never tried one

 

[junk731]

The thin kerf blades typically made and sold for Mitre Saws have a tendency to flex more than standard kerf blades like the Kapex uses. This will be magnified with heavier materials and 12" blades especially if there is any play in the arbor or pivoting mechanism. If your going to keep the saw, checking for and adjusting for tightness / play along with a new standard kerf  blade may help.

John

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Jonny, are you serious?  How could it not cut 4x material?  You better change blade sharpening services.  I think they went too far.  [tongue]

Deke, you could always try this for a Kapex replacement.  This is a 4x4 and it even has the capacity to cut a 6x6 through 6x10.

Brice, don't look at these pics as they may scare you being there's no batteries or cords.  [big grin]

 

[jonny round boy]

Jonny, are you serious?  How could it not cut 4x material?  You better change blade sharpening services.  I think they went too far.  [tongue]

Err, the Kapex's maximum capacity is 88mm. 4" is around 102mm, which is somewhat more than 88mm. Even 4" planed stock is generally finished at 94mm, which is still more than 88mm....

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Jonny,  4x lumber is 3 1/2" dimensioned, even a little less now and 3 1/2" = 88.9 mm.  I really doubt Festool made the saw without having that in mind.

Don't make me hit that button!  [big grin]  Bzzzzzz

 

[Deke]

Ken, I actually have an old miter set up like that, but not a good saw to go with it. How incredibly stupid and modern of me to not even think this way! I will also try the blade suggestions from others.

Yes, some of the stuff I cut is "4x4" for gate posts, fences and benches so it is indeed 3.5 (or so).

Either way, I hate this Hitachi saw with a passion. Nothing generates more dust than this thing. I'm looking for any excuse to dump it, but in truth, it actually works as it is supposed to and needs something better in the blade department.

 

[peter halle]

A a past user of a Hitachi saw ( I loved the day I threw it into the trash dumpster) I too was frustrated with strange cuts on large stock.  My Kapex handles 4 x 4 nominal pressure treated lumber just fine.

Peter

 

[jonny round boy]

Jonny,  4x lumber is 3 1/2" dimensioned, even a little less now and 3 1/2" = 88.9 mm.  I really doubt Festool made the saw without having that in mind.

Don't make me hit that button!  [big grin]  Bzzzzzz

OK, fair enough. If you have undersized timber that's fine by me! [tongue]

In the UK, or at least near to me, 4" sawn timber is actually pretty much 4".

4" planed all round is finished at 94mm, which is around 3 3/4".

You better change blade sharpening services.  I think they went too far.  [tongue]

I think you need to change your timber supplier - I think they've taken too much off [tongue] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

 

[Ken Nagrod]

AGREED, Jonny.  Unfortunately in the U.S. lumber has been going down, down, down in size ever since capitalism and greed got married.  I think by next year 1/8" plywood will come in a plastic container that you sprinkle out on your workbench and 2x4's will be small enough for a 3 year old to bend.  I do agree that we as end users have contributed to this, consuming so much wood products that there's very little old growth timber left and therefore we must make do with saplings with 3 growth rings on a 2x4, but I still feel that's mostly just used as an excuse by the lumber industry and it's mainly about maximizing profits by reducing product size and increasing volume of production.

 

[festooltim]

Nice saw Ken  thats what i trimmed out houses with when i was a younger.  When it was good and sharp it cut pretty fast. I also had a little more energy then.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Tim, the hand tools were instilled in me when I was young so I never thought of not incorporating them into my carpentry work.  I guess that's why I also have a modest antique tool collection including that miter (mitre) box setup, although, technically it's not an antique yet since it was made in 1950.  I bought it some years ago off ebay.  It even came in the original Stanley shipping box with the postage on it.  That blade is plenty sharp as my fingers can attest to accidently touching while changing miters without raising the saw to locked height position.

 

[Deke]

A a past user of a Hitachi saw ( I loved the day I threw it into the trash dumpster) I too was frustrated with strange cuts on large stock.  My Kapex handles 4 x 4 nominal pressure treated lumber just fine.
Peter

Oh, this is not good. It is what I asked for though.... [big grin]

 

[mouppe]

I could tell you that my Hitachi mitre saw cuts ends straight but I'd be lying.

It's another example of a cheap tool that I bought and regretted almost immediately. Cheap price and poor value for money.

 

[peter halle]

Deke,

I was giving an honest non compensated opinion.  My Hitachi products made me money.  I had a problem with the blade guards and disabled them.  There is poof here if you can't sleep and want to search.

The Kapex will barely cut 4 x 4 material if  it spans the full width of the saw - the washer on the left side hits the material and then rides over it as you push back on the saw.

I waited for the Hitachi to finally die to buy a Kapex.  Now the Kapex has to make me money.

So far so good.

Far different saws in quality and performance in my mind as someone who plunked down the cash to buy the Kapex.

Peter

 

[PaulMarcel]

Jonny, are you serious?  How could it not cut 4x material?  You better change blade sharpening services.  I think they went too far.  [tongue]

Deke, you could always try this for a Kapex replacement.  This is a 4x4 and it even has the capacity to cut a 6x6 through 6x10.

Brice, don't look at these pics as they may scare you being there's no batteries or cords.  [big grin]

I saw one of those on eBay not very long ago; was soo tempted to snag it.  I have one from Lee-Valley that uses more of a bow-saw like saw and it cuts very nicely.  I use it a lot for crown and base molding if there isn't enough to do to merit taking the boom arm off the CT-22 to fit it in the car.  Besides, I have a Makita, not a Kapex... I call her Dusty.

 

[tiralie]

I have one from Lee-Valley that uses more of a bow-saw like saw and it cuts very nicely.  I use it a lot for crown and base molding if there isn't enough....

Paul:
Good to know.
I am thinking of buying one of those saws from LeeValley for the same thing.
Either that or the Makita LS0714.
Tim

 

[flair woodworks]

Deke,

I have the Makita LS1212 12" CMS (non-slider) and have found that it makes good quality cuts.  I usually use either the stock blade or an Irwin Marathon blade.  I don't use stabilizers.  You could try clamping the stock down.  When cutting wide miters, the stock tends to shift so I get a curved cut.  Clamping the stock solves the problem.  Roughing up the surface of the saw might help as well (think sticky-back sandpaper).

I would try some blade stabilizers, similar to those used on table saws. It sound like the 12" blade is flexing on the cut
At the very least it couldn't hurt to try

I think that stabilizers would affect the depth of cut.  Considering that Deke has a non-slider, this likely won't work.  But in may be worth looking at anyways.

Jonny,  4x lumber is 3 1/2" dimensioned, even a little less now and 3 1/2" = 88.9 mm.  I really doubt Festool made the saw without having that in mind.

Don't make me hit that button!  [big grin]  Bzzzzzz

OK, fair enough. If you have undersized timber that's fine by me! [tongue]

In the UK, or at least near to me, 4" sawn timber is actually pretty much 4".

4" planed all round is finished at 94mm, which is around 3 3/4".

You better change blade sharpening services.  I think they went too far.  [tongue]

I think you need to change your timber supplier - I think they've taken too much off [tongue] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin]

That was funny, Jonny!