Debating tablesaw...

[JeremyH.]

I don't have access to a woodshop any longer. I've been collecting my own tools.

I need some precision for making boxes however. Right now I have rules and a Benchdog parallel thing for Mafell tracks. I can't seem to cut two identical panels. They're plenty good enough for something like cabinet side panels, but not when I need them to be identical. Maybe if I switched to festool tracks so I could use their parallel guides? I feel like I'm burning money here however.

If I were to get a a sub $2k tablesaw I don't really know how good the fences are. Now I know what using a Unisaw with the high grade Delta fence + rails is like... perfect everytime, but I have no idea with all these MDF fence things other saws come with.

Also do I just cap the dust extraction then vacuum it out with my Festool vac when done?  [tongue]

 

[afish]

That was my method for cabinets pre CNC.  Table saw to rip consistently parallel panels. Then I would crosscut everything that was to wide for a reasonably sized crosscut sled (mostly base cabinets and pantry depth) uppers and drawers would usually be done on the table saw and sled.  I would check the used market for a unisaw you used to be able to get a good condition unisaw for 800-1000 not sure where prices are now but that was pretty common pre covid.  Its pretty hard to kill those saws so used is the way to go.  I would much rather have a used unisaw than a new contractor version.  If things go south you can probably recoup most of the money on the unisaw even years later. 

 

[JeremyH.]

I'm afraid the Mafell tracks don't keep perfectly straight at lengths over a couple feet.. They are narrower than Festool tracks, but have superior splinter guards. I could get a Festool track and the guides... but that's like a 1/3 of a tablesaw.

When I say contractor tablesaw I mean Sawstop or Powermatic. The Delta new contractor saw is garbage. The older generation comes up for sale sometimes and is really pretty good but doesn't usually have the extension with the unisaw fence setup. With it, you're pretty well good to go. I don't own a truck so used presents some challenges. I also don't have anyone who can help me unload if I rent a HD truck... kind of a pain. My brother should be around in less than a month though who does have a truck and might be available once in awhile.

There's a chance maybe I can get good enough with what I have but it's really hard to calc it out perfectly. Drawing a line and hitting it perfectly just isn't very realistic. Maybe if I fake having parallel guides I could get closer, by measuring the track width and adding that to whatever I measure.

My Woodpecker rule seems fine but the stop thing that goes on it doesn't usually go perfectly across so I do it by eyeball but then I'm not sure that really works either. Measuring off of one side might still be best but that leaves you with a line instead of a measured cut distance.

 

[afish]

picked my unisaw up with a motorcycle trailer from U-haul for $15 for the day if you dont have something with a trailer hitch you can rent a truck if you have a U-haul close.  I used to keep a trailer but I have a u-haul a mile down the road.  I didnt have the room to store the trailer so now I just run down a grab one from them.  The motorcycle trailer is great since it has a ramp and is low so its pretty easy to unload things single handed.

 

[Michael Kellough]

Are the boxes you want to make smaller than cabinet panels?

You don’t have a shop so you are willing to buy a serious tablesaw saw or you aren’t?

If the stuff you need to rip is smaller than cabinet parts and you don’t have room for a real tablesaw then a small universal motor tablesaw (that has a decent fence) will work and it will cost less than buying a Festool rail and parallel guide stuff.

The small Dewalt tablesaw will do and if you connect the vac to the dust port from the start there will be way less dust escaping than you seem to expect. That small saw is designed for dust collection. With the old big iron it’s an add-on that works fairly well with a big dust collector and poorly with a shop vac.

With a universal motor you would need to get the best hearing protection you can find.

 

[rvieceli]

I’d also suggest looking to the used market. I’m partial to Powermatic. PM66s are great saws. 10 inch on the 66, 12 inch on the 70, 14 on the 72

I’ve got a PM66 that rolled out to a dealer in 1969. Works wonderfully. The things are built like tanks. Other than the motor, there are only two readily available bearings in the arbor. They are easy to work on.

Ron

 

[ChuckM]

IF you decide to get (read: invest in) a table saw, get a SawStop PCS -- new or used. Its footprint is close to the contractor model

There're many threads in this forum about finding a way to replace a table saw or to do some of the tasks that a table saw excels at. Go over them.

They will help you realize that, unless your plan for the future is to handle mostly sheet goods, build cabinets with them, etc., track saws, mft tables and what not (including all kinds of pricey gadgets and accessories) can't replace a good cabinet saw. I know of not one single serious or productive furniture maker where I live -- hobbyist or one doing it for a living -- who doesn't own a cabinet saw or a sliding saw.

 

[JeremyH.]

It would be unrealistic to dive into anything that needs more than 110v~ at the moment.

I'm not sure that there is a way around it, I may have to just stick with what I got for the moment. But if I can't get much better results my Duo Doweller is DOA for projects where the cuts aren't good enough.

 

[jaguar36]

I'd say its more a question of space more than anything.  If you're tight on space get the Festool tracks, parallel guides and a MFT or two.  Rip the sheets with the parallel guides to width, then crosscut them with the fence on the MFT to length.  With the guides and the stops on the MFT you should easily get consistent results.

If you've got the room a good used table saw that has a quality fence can be had pretty cheaply.  Older powermatics and deltas show up all the time but you'll likely have to do some legwork finding a good one and getting it picked up.  Or you can get a new Sawstop PCS.

Course if you've got the money, the best is  to rip the sheets with the track saw on the STM1800, cross cut em on the MFT, then use a tablesaw for the dado's.  Spendy for all that though.

 

[hoe]

I don't have access to a woodshop any longer. I've been collecting my own tools.

I need some precision for making boxes however. Right now I have rules and a Benchdog parallel thing for Mafell tracks. I can't seem to cut two identical panels. They're plenty good enough for something like cabinet side panels, but not when I need them to be identical. Maybe if I switched to festool tracks so I could use their parallel guides? I feel like I'm burning money here however.

If I were to get a a sub $2k tablesaw I don't really know how good the fences are. Now I know what using a Unisaw with the high grade Delta fence + rails is like... perfect everytime, but I have no idea with all these MDF fence things other saws come with.

Also do I just cap the dust extraction then vacuum it out with my Festool vac when done?  [tongue]

Makita tracks are cheaper and your Mafell will work on them.

 

[hoe]

I don't have access to a woodshop any longer. I've been collecting my own tools.

I need some precision for making boxes however. Right now I have rules and a Benchdog parallel thing for Mafell tracks. I can't seem to cut two identical panels. They're plenty good enough for something like cabinet side panels, but not when I need them to be identical. Maybe if I switched to festool tracks so I could use their parallel guides? I feel like I'm burning money here however.

If I were to get a a sub $2k tablesaw I don't really know how good the fences are. Now I know what using a Unisaw with the high grade Delta fence + rails is like... perfect everytime, but I have no idea with all these MDF fence things other saws come with.

Also do I just cap the dust extraction then vacuum it out with my Festool vac when done?  [tongue]

If you watch this video by Peter Millard he will show you how to make cheap guides.

 

[Packard]

Before I got my TSO measuring arms, I used two Harbor Freight 24" combination squares for setting the rail.  It was accurate but slower than the TSO system. 
https://www.harborfreight.com/hand-...s-squares/24-in-combination-square-63687.html

 

[ChuckM]

My workhorse, SawStop PCS, is 1.75HP, 110V. For ripping stock over 2" thick, I use a 30T ripping blade.

 

[mino]

Makita tracks are cheaper and your Mafell will work on them.

Their extrusion are also less accurate. They are more stiff still, but the accuracy standard is lower for them as bigger bends are accepted in production.

Upgrading from Maffel/Bosch tracks to get accuracy and messing it with Makita makes no sense.

Also the Makita splinter guard is very soft, this makes for an excellent visibility for marking but a crappy anti-splinter effect.

 

[mino]

I don't have access to a woodshop any longer. I've been collecting my own tools.

I need some precision for making boxes however. Right now I have rules and a Benchdog parallel thing for Mafell tracks. I can't seem to cut two identical panels. They're plenty good enough for something like cabinet side panels, but not when I need them to be identical. Maybe if I switched to festool tracks so I could use their parallel guides? I feel like I'm burning money here however.

If I were to get a a sub $2k tablesaw I don't really know how good the fences are. Now I know what using a Unisaw with the high grade Delta fence + rails is like... perfect everytime, but I have no idea with all these MDF fence things other saws come with.

Also do I just cap the dust extraction then vacuum it out with my Festool vac when done?  [tongue]

If you are not happy with the accuracy you get from your rails, it makes no sense to stick with them. Either fix the current system or replace it.

If you want accuracy, Maffel on Festool rails is not a good combination. You do not get the reason for the Festool rails - the teflon-coated sliders on the TS55 - which is what gives it the accuracy and smoothness. And you lose the advantages of the Maffel saw and tracks like the connector etc.

But you are better off selling the whole system - tracksaw with rails - and getting a new system - again Tracksaw with rails + the TSO GRS + PG system which are simply brilliant. Just make sure to skip the Festool rail connectors and either get the Makita ones which are non-marring or the self-aligning TSO ones.

The new TS 55 F series uses the same 1,8 mm blade kerf as Maffel which helps reduce the power difference and will allow you to keep blades.

For home/hobby use, IMO nothing beats the flexibility and accuracy of a TS 55 + 2x 1400 LR32 + TSO GRS + TSO PGS + TSO rail connectors.

 

[JeremyH.]

Mino thank you for recommendation.

I’m OCD for wanting the best... I am going to re-examine what I have and do now to see if I can work it out better. The thing I dislike the most is not being able to push to position. Setting to position for a pencil line is a liability.

An MFT with the ability to use dogs would help with being able to probably get good 90*’s, I suspect, as MFT users say it’s bang on.

An Incra positioner attached to mafell rail is tempting but will take some interesting work.

Some day in the future Benchdogs is going to make parallel guides for Mafell.

I’m going to play with my Mafell tracks and see how much deflection they give. That may help me know what to do.

 

[JeremyH.]

Also when I use to use Festool TS55, wrap all cuts in blue tape, or get splinters.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

The TSO parallel guides are the best I've come across, and there are procedures for aligning the two pins, but in my experience the most reliable way to get perfectly parallel rips is to use a table saw. The problem with parallel guides is that you're relying on two points in space, which may or may not be identical. Again, there are ways to to do this, but if you're looking for identical pieces, exactly parallel, in any sort of production capacity, you'll be better served by complementing your track saw with a table saw or a band saw.....

 

[JeremyH.]

To be clear I'm not producing anything right now except personal stuff. I have plans for a commercial item or two possibly but don't actually need a tablesaw for that first one.

I'm just another crazed hobbyist at the moment... willing to spend thousands of dollars to build things like inexpensive speakers or whatever I want  [wink]

 

[ChuckM]

Snip. hobbyist at the moment... willing to spend thousands of dollars to build things like inexpensive speakers or whatever I want  [wink]

I know several people like that including myself. If one day, you venture into hand tools, be prepared to spend more. Even one boutique plane or a set of Japanese chisels could set the budget back by a few thousand dollars, depending on who makes it. [big grin] [big grin]