deck building with the TS55?

[ScooterX]

I'm adding a deck onto my shop, and I'm finding the TS55 a bit unwieldy when used without the table and the guiderail. Any suggestions?

For example, trimming the joist ends once they're installed (to match up with angles), or trimming off post tops. It is hard to line up the saw to know where the cut line is. It doesn't seem practical to lay out 12' and 14' joists, mark them, remove them and then carry them over to the two tables needed to support long lumber (made even more difficult because there isn't a flat surface to place the tables, which is why I'm building the deck in the first place...) and then put them back in place.

I don't think I'm a good enough engineer to pre-cut all the lumber and then have it all perfect when I go to assemble it. (maybe if I had two helpers and a laser level... but I don't).

I thought about cutting down a guiderail to 12", just so I'd have a short piece to line up with for cutting these (and then clamping the baby rail to the lumber), but I sort of hate to ruin a $59 rail if there's a better way.

 

[nickao]

I never use the TS without the rail. It is not a good saw to use without the rail. There are many better saws to use for deck building if you are not going to use the rail, IMHO.

The Festool TS saws were designed for rail use and for me if not using a rail I would not use that saw. The TS saws are squirrelly to say the least without the rail and could even be dangerous when using them stand alone in many situations in my experience.

There is no better saw to trim off deck boards when leaving them long over hanging the framing and it is a great saw for trimming the joists ends in line with each other too.

You are correct, Don't try to pre measure it will not work for a variety of reasons. For example when hanging joists over a beam it is possible the ledger board on the house  goes in and out ever so slightly, which makes trimming off the joists after, the way to go. The rail will span may joists at a time and I have done it hundreds of times. This is one excuse to get a long rail. There were times I wish I had a 20' rail for that application. After the initial 1-1/2" cut on the top of the joists use another saw with a speed square to finish trimming each joist off across its width(cutting downward).  Of course this method is for a cantilever design where the joists are on and hang over the beams. I slightly different method is better for a  corner post design(where the joist meet the support beam and attached with joist hangers.

 

[paul_david_thomas]

Alas, this is the time you need a cheap drop saw... I've had a (not cheap) Makita for 3 years now and it's jusst great. TS55 is not really for this job - I second nickao...

 

[honeydoman]

you need a skill saw worm drive for all that cutting.  use the  rail and saw when all is done to lay down on top of the deck to cut a straight edge on the ends of all the deck boards.  is all I can see its use for.

after all it is a deck with treated lumber.

 

[mwhafner]

The Festool TS and rails excel at many tasks, but this is not one of them.  I would suggest that you purchase a skilsaw and a speed square.

 

[erikfsn]

I've used the ts55 and a speed square for this application with fine results. Just measure
the distance from the side of the saw that runs along the square to the blade, then hold
the square the same distance from where you want the cut to be.

When cutting pressure treated I like to limit my exposure to dust.

Erik

 

[ScooterX]

thank you for all the replies.

I guess I'll use the TS55 as much as I can (I discovered that I can clamp the 32" rail onto 2x8 pieces without too much effort (its cumbersome, but it works) and the rest of the work I'll either rent a worm-drive saw for a day (when I'm doing the posts and rafters for the roof) or I'll just use my hand saws.

For those concerned, I'm not using any pressure-treated lumber. Some of the lumber is reclaimed (ie, used) clear all-heart redwood and the rest has a nominal rosewood oil preservative brushed on. all of the structure is 6" above grade (except some of the redwood, at 3"-4" above grade) on concrete piers. We don't have snow or ice here (at least, not yet!) so untreated wood will last a long time as long as it is properly detailed for drainage and air circulation (like deck fasteners that elevate the decking off the joists 1/8").

 

[nickao]

Scooter where do you live?

I have personally built over 500 decks in five states and the municipalities all required green treated lumber for the framing and rightfully so. I usually used southern yellow pine or Doug fir treated for all the framing. In a few states state I could use Cedar, but the massive size required for the beams and joists was just to cost prohibitive so we wrapped green treat in the cedar where it was exposed. Even the biggest redwood deck I built they would never have let me use the redwood for the framing, it was way to expensive anyway.

That close to the ground even with no snow I personally would want a green treated lumber.

I will amend the above statement because if I got an architect to stamp the plans I could use almost anything for the framing, but that was almost 3000.00 just for the architect to look at, make adjustments and clear the plans.

Nickao

 

[honeydoman]

scooter,

just go and buy a circlular saw instead of renting one.  you can get a craftsman for 80 bucks or 100 bucks and it would work well and you will need it down the road.  taking the time to clamp a rail to a 2x8 just for a crosscut, is way to time consuming.  but if you are just an HO and have nothing but time well okay.  but everybody should have a circular saw.  the worm drives are only 179 bucks and last a lifetime, unless you are a framer day in and day out.

again the ts55 is great but a  circular saw is also needed....  a hand saw?  that old old old old school!

 

[Wonderwino]

I still keep my DeWalt 12v cordless circular saw charged up for just such jobs.  It is light, mobile and can cut 2X lumber in one pass.

A trick I learned in the 70's (pre deck-clip days) was to fold a 4" wide strip of felt paper over the top of the joists before nailing down  the decking (pre deck-screw too).  This helped hinder the wet-rot on the joists top.  Only the deck boards held the paper down; this allowed the paper to flap up and shed water away from the joists that drained through the decking.  This was in Western NY which was wet and snowy.

 

[Loren Hedahl]

Check your local pawn shop.

I stopped in to one this morning thinking I might find a decent router (they didn't have one that I would be interested in) but there must have been 20 or more worm drive/hypoid drive saws lined up on a shelf.

With the home building industry in the economic barrel, you should be able to find a great one at half price or better! 

 

[Steveo48]

My TS55 is for cabinet work, plywood only. 

I do decks with my chop saw and 25 YO craftsman circular saw with a pirannah blade.

 

[Toolpig]

There is a better way.

Chalk line and a worm drive.

JW

I'm adding a deck onto my shop, and I'm finding the TS55 a bit unwieldy when used without the table and the guiderail. Any suggestions?

For example, trimming the joist ends once they're installed (to match up with angles), or trimming off post tops. It is hard to line up the saw to know where the cut line is. It doesn't seem practical to lay out 12' and 14' joists, mark them, remove them and then carry them over to the two tables needed to support long lumber (made even more difficult because there isn't a flat surface to place the tables, which is why I'm building the deck in the first place...) and then put them back in place.

I don't think I'm a good enough engineer to pre-cut all the lumber and then have it all perfect when I go to assemble it. (maybe if I had two helpers and a laser level... but I don't).

I thought about cutting down a guiderail to 12", just so I'd have a short piece to line up with for cutting these (and then clamping the baby rail to the lumber), but I sort of hate to ruin a $59 rail if there's a better way.

 

[Tinker]

I had just gotten out of HS in 1949 and a friend recommended me to a Swedish builder who did a lot of custom houses.
He had designed a system for cutting joists, studs and rafters (rafters at top ends, but the tails were cut singularly)

the first step in the system was my job, being the newby in the crew who did most of the digging work. I had to scratch and rake out a flat area to set three long horses.  Each horse was about 9 or 10 feet long and the beam was 2x8 with sturdy legs.  Two of the horses were set jus 3 or 4 feet apart with a pice of 1/2" ply tacked across them.  The third hose was set at whatever distance necessary to support opposite end of lumber to be cut. A cleat was tacked vertically to the end of each ot the two horses supporting the plywood.  These were set so the lumber ends of one end could be layed across the plywood with just enough space to drive a wedge against the boards at one side of the layout.  Same type of cleat and wedges was used at other end of the stack.  Once ste up, the laborer (guess who) would hustle to lay a bunch of 2x's across the horses.  A carpenter would adjust the 2x's so they were reasonably evenly matched up at the one end to come even with the sheathing.  If all lumber was perfectly square cut (and it almost never was in those days) no cutting was necessary at that end after the clamping wedges were driven home.  The far end was wedged and a line snapped where upon a cleat was tacked across the line much as done with today's festool guide rails. If both ends needed to be cut, two cleats were used and a carpenter would cut both ends simultaneously. The cleat had a cleat tacked to its top on the back side to guide the skill saw to make the cut.  For a big job, we set up two systems and the laborer (guess again who) had to keep humping lumber onto one set and off of the other.  Believe me, it took a heap of running to keep up with two carpenters cutting, one at each system set up.  Two men and that laborer (ugh! he would be huffing in no time) could cut up all of the base joists and all of the studs for the first floor of the house in a matter of two hours and be ready for assembly. 

When I got my very first look at the ATF 55 and guide rail, I knew right away the inventer of that system had either been student, or teacher of my old carpenter boss, Sven, from way back in the dim recesses of my memory.  I hardly needed a second glance to know how efficient that set up could be. 
Tinker