Deep mortises for locksets

live4ever

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Need to make some 3-7/8" deep mortises in 1-3/8" doors for Emtek locksets.  Anyone want to share their setup for this? 

I have a couple of useful items on hand, including 2 edge guides for my OF1400, as well as the Woodpeckers VRS equivalent.  Looking for a headstart to cut down my setup time.  Many thanks...
 
It's extremely popular in Europe.  I first saw it thought various European carpenter forums on Facebook.
 
Hi have the very old Schlage version of the Souber. 1 piece unit clamps on to drill both holes at once. HD sells a modern version of it but its s flimsy piece of crap. The Souber looks like the way to go.
If you are doing a lot of doors, the clamp on set up is the way to go.
 
Years ago lumber yards would loan or rent for short money a PC mortiser if you purchased your doors and hardware from them. If that’s not an option I’ve used a Domino XL to do the deep mortises as well as a hollow chisel mortiser. Both work well enough if you only have a few doors to do.

The Souber looks good.  Definitely worth considering. No personal experience.

If you haven’t already seen it maybe have a look at Insider Carpenrty’s May 18 2020 YouTube video on installing Emtek pocket door hardware. Spencer provides a good explanation of how he does it.

John
 
Earlier this spring I had six pocket doors to do. I made a template for the deep mortise and another for the surface plate. I got about 2.5" of depth with a spiral twist bit and finished using a brad point chucked into the Rocker drill press jig. I'm still shopping around for a nice wide mortising chisel.
 
If you have the Domino XL, use that at max depth, then a forstner bit for any remaining depth.

Otherwise, I've used a good drill bit and a drill guide with acceptable results, squaring up with a chisel. Not as clean as a hole inside the mortise, unless you have a sharp mortising chisel and take your time.
 
I have a mortiser for this type of work. if you have the space and 3 phase, they are available on the second hand market - you cant buy them new anymore as they are discontinued.

the cutter used is specified to carry out 25mm x 120mm x 120mm mortise.
 
Knight Woodworks said:
Years ago lumber yards would loan or rent for short money a PC mortiser if you purchased your doors and hardware from them. If that’s not an option I’ve used a Domino XL to do the deep mortises as well as a hollow chisel mortiser. Both work well enough if you only have a few doors to do.

The Souber looks good.  Definitely worth considering. No personal experience.

If you haven’t already seen it maybe have a look at Insider Carpenrty’s May 18 2020 YouTube video on installing Emtek pocket door hardware. Spencer provides a good explanation of how he does it.

John

Thanks for this!  I must have missed Spencer’s vid on this.  Appreciate your recollection of the date so I was able to track it down easily.  Though it’s mostly PC 513 based there are a lot of good tips in there.  Hardware for the project in question is the same. 

Domino XL is a good thought.  That and other approaches (including drill and chisel) would be a-ok, but I wanted something a little more “automatic” as I’ll be doing more of these in the future.  The Souber hits the right price/efficiency-point, assuming it works.  Needs a 1/2”  corded high-speed drill...not sure if I have one kicking around that spins fast enough (2-3k rpm).
 
woodbutcherbower said:
Oh - for heaven’s sake. One of my major frustrations about this forum is how garage hobbyist contributors see megabucks equipment, fancy gadgets and anything with ‘Festool’ printed on it, as the answer to everything. To fit a mortise lock in around 10 minutes (just the way thousands of joiners have done it for hundreds of years);

Mark the centreline of the door edge. Place your lock against the side of the door and mark the top and bottom points of the lock case which the recess is for. Transfer these marks to the edge face using a square.

Take a suitable width of spade bit, mark the depth of cut using masking tape wrapped around the shaft. Drill the first hole a quarter inch deep. Move the point of the bit to the edge of your first hole, and repeat, keeping to the centreline. Drill a second hole to the same depth. Continue this process until you reach the mark indicating the end of the case recess, making sure your drill is square to the surface in both planes.

Now start again at the first hole and repeat all of the above, drilling down a further quarter-inch at a time. When you have reached the depth of the masking tape, you’re done drilling.

Square of the edges of the mortise using a firmer chisel. 1” Kirschens are the best.  Place the lock into the recess you’ve just made. Draw round the face of the lock plate with a utility knife - not a pencil. Chisel out the plate mortise. Done. I’ll often hang 6-8 doors per day as a pro with 40 years on the tools.

Don’t overcomplicate things, guys. This is day 1/lesson 1 basic apprentice joinery.

Yep, sometimes you just have to rely on good old skill.
 
Thanks, Lincoln.

Just for the sake of interest and to check that I wasn't being that old-school, blinkered, head-in-the-sand guy - I just watched the demo video for the Souber DBB lock jig. It's a clever idea and it looks very well engineered - but the setup time to do both the deep and shallow mortises is crazy. I could have completed the entire job by the time the guy had even started drilling - and to a much, much tighter and better-looking standard. I have no idea what that bit was which he was using to drill/rout/whatever, but the result looked like it had been chewed out by the guy's pet beaver, especially on the shallow faceplate mortise. And I wonder how long that thing would last when faced with a dozen solid European kiln-dried oak doors - a timber which eats blades, bits and cutters for breakfast? And how much is a new one?

Of greater significance - in the UK this costs £100 (Axminster Tools) and does one job - not very quickly, not very well, and with ongoing (and undoubtedly high) bit replacement costs. So spend just £15 more at the same store, and get a beautiful set of 6 Kirschens in a wooden presentation box instead - tools which can be used for dozens of tasks, not just one - tools which will last a lifetime with a little care, and which can be passed down to your grandchildren - just like the Robert Sorby chisels which my grandfather passed down to me, and which are still as good as the day they left Sheffield. It's an absolute no-brainer. Above all - tools like these will make you a better, more confident and skilled woodworker, instead of becoming dependent on ridiculous gadgets like this.   

I was thinking about this today in the workshop, since I'm part-way through building 8 x hardwood doors for a customer. So I timed myself - 1 x lock mortise on the door, 1 x striker plate mortise on the frame, 3 x hinge mortises on the door, plus 3 more on the frame, all done using chisels, a wooden mallet and a 22mm spade bit in a Hilti SF6H 22-volt combi.

Yeah - I know that I've had years of practise and have hundreds of doors under my belt, but .............. 37 minutes.

You will, however, be delighted to hear that I used my TS55 to put a 1-degree backplane on the door leading edge before fitting the lock, and I'll be sanding it using a Mirka Deros, both hooked up to a CTL26. And I'll be delivering the doors in one of those new-fangled vans instead of my horse and cart.
 

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woodbutcherbower said:
Thanks, Lincoln.

Just for the sake of interest and to check that I wasn't being that old-school, blinkered, head-in-the-sand guy - I just watched the demo video for the Souber DBB lock jig. It's a clever idea and it looks very well engineered - but the setup time to do both the deep and shallow mortises is crazy. I could have completed the entire job by the time the guy had even started drilling - and to a much, much tighter and better-looking standard. I have no idea what that bit was which he was using to drill/rout/whatever, but the result looked like it had been chewed out by the guy's pet beaver, especially on the shallow faceplate mortise. And I wonder how long that thing would last when faced with a dozen solid European kiln-dried oak doors - a timber which eats blades, bits and cutters for breakfast? And how much is a new one?

Of greater significance - in the UK this costs £100 (Axminster Tools) and does one job - not very quickly, not very well, and with ongoing (and undoubtedly high) bit replacement costs. So spend just £15 more at the same store, and get a beautiful set of 6 Kirschens in a wooden presentation box instead - tools which can be used for dozens of tasks, not just one - tools which will last a lifetime with a little care, and which can be passed down to your grandchildren - just like the Robert Sorby chisels which my grandfather passed down to me, and which are still as good as the day they left Sheffield. It's an absolute no-brainer. Above all - tools like these will make you a better, more confident and skilled woodworker, instead of becoming dependent on ridiculous gadgets like this.   

I was thinking about this today in the workshop, since I'm part-way through building 8 x hardwood doors for a customer. So I timed myself - 1 x lock mortise on the door, 1 x striker plate mortise on the frame, 3 x hinge mortises on the door, plus 3 more on the frame, all done using chisels, a wooden mallet and a 22mm spade bit in a Hilti SF6H 22-volt combi.

Yeah - I know that I've had years of practise and have hundreds of doors under my belt ............. but 37 minutes.

You will, however, be delighted to hear that I used my TS55 to put a 1-degree backplane on the door leading edge before fitting the lock, and I'll be sanding it using a Mirka Deros, both hooked up to a CTL26. And I'll be delivering the doors in one of those new-fangled vans instead of my horse and cart.

Have sent you a private message.
 
Wow. Just wow.

How to silence a forum thread with just two well-meaning posts based on four decades worth of professional experience and the real-world advice which that experience generates. Real-world. That means doing this for a living, putting food on the table and keeping a roof over my family's head. Putting my kids through college, buying my wife a decent car, having an ordinary-but-nice house, and even maybe taking a vacation once in a while when the insane workload let up a little.

Real-world isn't about showing faceless internet strangers your crystal-clean, clinical home/garage/man-cave shops full of immaculate equipment which almost always looks like it's hardly ever been used. I'll guarantee that my Festool machinery puts more hours on the clock in a month than many hobbyists will put on in a lifetime. Nothing wrong with being a hobbyist of course - and to the guys who take it seriously enough to invest in quality equipment? Amen to that. But responding to an advice request by seriously suggesting mortising a lock case slot into a door with a Domino XL followed by a Forstner or spiral upcut bit to finish off the bits the XL can't reach?

Really ??

If you have zero idea of how to do something correctly - then don't presume to advise others, leading them down (usually expensive) blind alleys using your total lack of knowledge. Your huge signature Festool equipment list doesn't necessarily mean you have the faintest clue what you are doing, or the tiniest shred of skill - it just means that you've spent a f**kload of money and have a huge equipment list. Throwing $$$$ at a muscle car doesn't magically make you Dale Earnhardt or Lewis Hamilton. Doing that takes experience, skill and practise. Lots of it.

On every construction site I ever worked on, there were two types of people - the guys wearing suits, brand-new shiny hardhats and immaculate hi-vis dayglo vests holding clipboards and laptops, over-thinking, over-analysing and over-complicating everything - and spending countless thousands in client funds deciding on the optimum route via their 'consultancy' process - and all whilst trying not to get their shiny black leather shoes dirty in the sea of mud or the bowl of dust. And then - there were guys like me. Covered in sawdust, dirt and sweat, wearing rigger boots, woolly beanie hats and lumber shirts, with a toolbelt and a lifetime's worth of experience. 99% of the time - our clients would ignore the suits and come to us - because guys like us were the ones who knew how to get the job done. Better, faster, cheaper, to a higher level of quality - and today. Not in six weeks time when the consultancy report came through, containing a 40-page method statement and risk assessment for a task which me and my crew had completed six weeks earlier, and in two hours.

This forum reminds me of all of that. I joined expecting so much, I really wanted to share my experience and provide advice to others to maybe help them be better, more skilled, and more fulfilled as woodworkers. But almost instantly, I realised that this community isn't about anyone wanting to learn something new, how to do something better, or anything remotely similar. It's all about how many dollars you've spent, and about how many grey-and-green boxes you have on your 'badge of honour' signature lists.

I can't say it's been fun. Over and out.

 
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