Dewalt's answer to SawStop

I love the saw stop idea it's a brilliant invention  but it should not be forced.   If the market wants the invention it will happen. Supply and demand!  If people are going to buy saws stops then the market will adapt.  Other brands will want to fallow.   Just like the TS55  now loads of brands make a TS55 copy.

"Three little Pigs" doesn't actually truly relate to this at all.  The two Pigs where not forced to live in the house they wanted to so they where safe.  So if they didn't want to pay rent they could leave they had CHOICE.   Now the saw stop I have no choice but to pay the rent if the law is in-forced if I needed a table saw.

Now about the Injury costs.
If your comparing the millions of pounds Which could be saved in injuries over the cost of this invention if this invention was made law do you think we would see the savings/benefits? Because I bet we don't!  If this will save so much money why doesn't the government pay for the rent I'm sure it's less than paying doctors to fix people. Cus the only MAIN reason I see for making saw stop law Is to save cost on Hostpital bills.

Jmb

 
I don't think the DeWalt idea is practical, they must have just filed a patent on a silly idea just so nobody else could.
About sawstop, i think it's all about money. Sawstop put allot of money into this and intends to make as huge a profit it can out of it.
Isn't it enough to make a great invention and just let customers decide wether they want it or not, they really had to push it on everybody else while obviously keeping the rights, so that everybody has to pay them.
I don't like the pushy tone and fear mongering attitude of sawstop, but their invention is great. I would have certainly taken it as an option on my saw, but buying an actual sawstop? The cabinet saw design is 60 years behind on european saws, it's crazy to see people complain about the price of a top notch American saw with an amazing safety feature when it's only around $2-3000! Thats still 3 to 4 times cheaper than a lower range European saw!
 
So I guess you can't use hold-downs, including Board Buddies and downward featherboards with this saw?
 
why cant someone just come up with a break system that will stop the blade in a instant, sure seems like a safe and cost effective method. Might be pricey to build but at least you wont have to destroy the blade like the sawstop.
 
GhostFist said:
Again, while sawstop saws are very good, and the tech may actually save fingers. I'm against this being a mandatory law. I've seen sawstops misfire and completely halt production. In a one man shop go for them. Larger production, forget it.
Click to expand...

Misfires?  Sure they weren't operator error? Wet lumber? Metal contact? I've even seen a friend try to cut the slot in a new table insert in his SS and forget to remove the riving kinife.  When the knife bent into the blade...kapow!  

Changing a brake, blade and putting a bandaid on a small cut vs getting an employee to a hospital,  filing an incident report with your insurance company, replacing the employee while out on medical leave/ f/u rehab appointments, government safety regulatory paperwork and follow-up inspections.  Which takes more time and costs more?

If the government doesn't force your hand the insurance industry will.
 
waynelang2001 said:
why cant someone just come up with a break system that will stop the blade in a instant, sure seems like a safe and cost effective method. Might be pricey to build but at least you wont have to destroy the blade like the sawstop.
Click to expand...

The only thing I can think of is an (automotive) disk brake type mechanism to grab the blade
but it would probably take at least three times longer to stop the blade than the SawStop.

SawStop works. It provides a valuable service by minimizing injury.
The "industry" has had ample opportunity to develop other means to reduce injury.
They've procrastinated a long time and might get stuck having to license the SawStop tech.
Really, would that be so bad?
 
waynelang2001 said:
why cant someone just come up with a break brake system that will stop the blade in a instant, sure seems like a safe and cost effective method. Might be pricey to build but at least you wont have to destroy the blade like the sawstop.
Click to expand...

"Inertia"
 
inertia is the killer to these systems.
if you had a brake pad on the motor shaft spining normal direction  and a similar brake pad  with the same mass spining the oposite way . would the inertia cancel each other out when the 2 brake pads are forced together.

i like the saw stop idea (if they had the brake fired into a seperate disk  on the same shaft , so that the blade wouldnt be ruied) but hate the idea of it being forced on people.
 
I'm wondering how much slower would turning the Dewalt invention upside down i.e. instead of lifting the table up shoot the whole blade assembly down with similar pyrotechnic charges you use in seat belt tighteners and let the blade continue spinning in the released position under the table to a stop out of harms way?  [scratch chin]

What I mean is that the blade assembly would be in an entirely hinged body assembly that is locked normally in place and when similar electronics notice conductivity in the blade instead of launching the SawStop break into the blade ruining the blade, it's bearings and the brake it would set off the charges/hydrolic valves/other means of pushing the assemby free of the fixings and twist it down on the hinge.

Of course the fixings will be ruined and depending if explosives or hydrolic pumps are used the explosive charges would need replacement before getting production back up, but the blade would still be intact and probably the re-arming procedure could be simplified to the point that one could do it in the shop?

I guess one would need to think carefully the mechanical design of the assemly so that one can still tilt and adjust the blade normally and still retain accuracy of cut.
 
My guess is that the design of dropping the blade (which the Sawstop also does in addition to stopping the blade) is covered by a patent.

Peter
 
I dont see how just dropping the blade could be patented. Maybe a patent attorney can comment, but I would think  it is the method of dropping the blade that can be patented, not simply dropping the blade.

And I thought it was the blade insert that raised for the DeWalt concept, not the complete table, maybe I miss-read it?.

Until the DeWalt concept is an actual device(maybe I missed it) I don't see how anyone could comment on it being good or bad. I must see it implemented to comment and I really hope its good. Anything that can compete or even put an end to this Saw Stop mandate insanity in CA has to be a good thing. And don't kid yourself, right now it is a Saw Saw Stop mandate, not a safety mandate.
 
Did the math just for fun.  If your arbor is spinning at 1750 revolutions per minute, thats 29.16 revs per second, times 40 teeth would be 1166.7 teeth per second.

That brake or elevator or whatever better be darned fast!

BTW, we had Sawstops go off when one student failed to tighten the adjustment on the miter gauge and it contacted the blade.  Another case happened when the fence wasn't locked down.
 
Dovetail65 said:
I dont see how just dropping the blade could be patented. Maybe a patent attorney can comment, but I would think  it is the method of dropping the blade that can be patented, not simply dropping the blade.

And I thought it was the blade insert that raised for the DeWalt concept, not the complete table, maybe I miss-read it?.

Until the DeWalt concept is an actual device(maybe I missed it) I don't see how anyone could comment on it being good or bad. I must see it implemented to comment and I really hope its good. Anything that can compete or even put an end to this Saw Stop mandate insanity in CA has to be a good thing. And don't kid yourself, right now it is a Saw Saw Stop mandate, not a safety mandate.
Click to expand...

Very good point.  DeWalt Co. isn't going to bring an engineered solution to market without thorough testing that covers the possible safety scenarios.  [unsure]
 
i think this patent is only filed so that they own the idea and noone else can use it.
 
My previous reply was only a guess due to the fact that he has reportedly somewhere around 90 patents somewhat related.  A search at Google shows this one:  http://www.google.com/patents/US8191450  which includes :  "and also can be configured to retract a cutting tool at least partially away from a cutting region upon detection of a dangerous condition by the detection system."

By the way, he also has patents regarding miter saws, radial arm saws, hand held circular saws, routers, band saws ...   http://www.patentfish.com/sd3-llc.html  You can also see other similar patents by searching at that site for the "Power Tool Institute".

Peter

 
How I'd love a world without patents, without money and without greed - a world where we all strive for simply a better future. A world without lawyers.
 
Does anyone know if his patents are world wide or just USA? I have heard its much more expensive and harder to get a worldwide patent.

John
 
junk said:
Does anyone know if his patents are world wide or just USA? I have heard its much more expensive and harder to get a worldwide patent.

John
Click to expand...

John:
Yes, from the most threatening (for his business) to the benign - Australia , Canada , China , India and Taiwan . Additional U.S. and foreign patents pending.
From (Sawstop) web site.
Tim
 
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