Difference between 16 & 32 on LR-32 system?

[prjones]

Hey guys - Happy Saturday!
I'm new to the LR-32 system and am hearing "16 up and out" and "32 up and out". I used 32 to build a set of SYS-AZ cabinets and it turned out great. I'm also hearing "16" is the most common...but can't find where folks explain the difference. What gives?? Thanks!!

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[semenza]

      Interesting, nice workspace!  I can't help with the 16 / 32 but I am curious about the Systainer fronts on the top shelf?

Seth

 

 

[sancho57]

dont know either, but ya can always call FT get a hold of a product application specialist or call the woodcraft in Las Vegas, Steve Base is the manager there. He'd know.

 

[Coen]

Look al Blum Process 32

There is a lot of standardization going on for European kitchen drawers. Blum and Hettich are the big A-brand manufacturers of hinges and drawer slides. If you stick to the standard offsets you can use the 32 hole pattern not just for shelve pins but also for drawer slides and hinges.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I think it has to do with the relative spacing from the reference edge. The spacing between holes is obviously built into the rail, but the end stops control the starting position.

 

[Packard]

As a side note:

I built some utility cabinets a while back using pre-drilled 16” deep melamine clad boards. 

As we all know, it is important to have the left panel align with the right panel.  The easiest way is to use 5mm pins to align the panels and then cut to length both panels at the same time. 

Finding 5mm dowels is not easy in the USA.  Until it was.

It turns out that the bamboo skewers that they sell in the supermarket are available in 5mm and 3mm.  Very cheap and easy to source, they have come in handy for spreading glue in dowel holes also. 

At any rate, if you are looking for those size dowels for alignment, that’s where to find them.

I do not know if bamboo takes glue well, so I am not suggesting them for joinery.  They might be good; they might be lousy.  I have no idea either way.

 

[cpw]

32mm is the standard gap for cabinets; but with the LR32 you can offset the hole one of 3 dimensions.  16mm, 32mm or 9.5mm.  If you have a 3/4 bottom panel, then 9.5mm stop puts the first hole directly in the center.  If you are not trying to follow a system precisely, all that really matters is you use the same stop and reference edge (or have the cabinet sides an appropriate multiple so that it doesn't matter if you start at top or bottom).

One "trick" that is common for systainer walls is to use the 32mm offset followed by a 16mm offset to half the spaces between holes to 16mm.  Depending on what you are trying to stack in there, you might just be able to fit another systainer on the wall by having less dead space.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

One "trick" that is common for systainer walls is to use the 32mm offset followed by a 16mm offset to half the spaces between holes to 16mm.  Depending on what you are trying to stack in there, you might just be able to fit another systainer on the wall by having less dead space.

That little doozy must be a work-around for the Sys3 units? With the T-Locs, that is totally unnecessary, as they were designed with the 32mm increment in mind.
Mine fit so close that you cannot fully close the drawer with the T-loc in the open position......until the RO125 came along. It was my first in the Sys3.

 

[DynaGlide]

I don't think it matters. I've done it both ways. The 32 and 16 stops allow you to land a euro cup in the middle of a hinge when you're sticking to 32mm increments.

 

[hdv]

The German handbook for furniture construction I have says that there has to be minimum of 16 mm between the bottom/top (in balanced panels) and the first hole. With the standard thickness of 3/4" / 19 mm you will be left with less than that if you start with 32 up and out. As to why it has to be 16 mm the handbook is not very explicit. But it refers to having enough room for drawer slides.

 

[Lincoln]

It's for when you swap from drilling the 5mm holes to drilling the hinge cup holes. The centre of the hinge is halfway between a pair of 32mm holes, so you need to offset by 16mm.

 

[hdv]

As the hole for the cup is placed *between* two "regular" holes, I don't see the relevance of that to the need to have at least 16 mm spacing between the horizontal surface and the first hole. On the other hand, drawer runners take up some space below the hole they are fixed to, so that might indeed be why they choose to define a 16 mm spacing in the system 32 "standard". (I put that between quotes as there is no formal standard describing system 32, it is more of a de facto standard grown to meet the needs of easily/quickly making furniture for low prices and minimum material use when rebuilding Europe after WWII.)

 

[Coen]

Just look at the slides (if any) you want to use. It's a waste to have up to 32mm empty (wasted) space below the drawer.

One "trick" that is common for systainer walls is to use the 32mm offset followed by a 16mm offset to half the spaces between holes to 16mm.  Depending on what you are trying to stack in there, you might just be able to fit another systainer on the wall by having less dead space.

That little doozy must be a work-around for the Sys3 units? With the T-Locs, that is totally unnecessary, as they were designed with the 32mm increment in mind.
Mine fit so close that you cannot fully close the drawer with the T-loc in the open position......until the RO125 came along. It was my first in the Sys3.

Sys3 wasn't designed with anything in mind

 

[FestitaMakool]

16mm from the bottom. The bottom of the drawer has 1mm clearance below.
I had to chisel a tiny bit below the front section of these drawer slides to get them low enough to fit, and so the drawer bottom would clear just.
- Yes, check with the drawer slides you intend to use and start from there.

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[Michael Kellough]

[member=71478]FestitaMakool[/member]  do your drawers come out far enough to open the Systainer? If so, what length do you use?

I like Euro slides for the low resistance but they only extend about 3/4 the way. If you use long ones are you finding stuff to put behind the Systainers?

 

[Coen]

[member=71478]FestitaMakool[/member]  do your drawers come out far enough to open the Systainer? If so, what length do you use?

I like Euro slides for the low resistance but they only extend about 3/4 the way. If you use long ones are you finding stuff to put behind the Systainers?

There are slides that extend more than 100%. But not the ones pictured.

 

[FestitaMakool]

Michael, Coen is right.
450mm would be enough. These are 500mm and you can see some measures below.
Clearance front on the shelf for the Systainer is 5mm. With the 500mm slides there are 95mm minus an eventual face frame added.
The cabinet is not yet finished, but I made it 500mm deep, with room for some sort of facia to be added front and back - otherwise I would have made it 10-50mm deeper. This is made to be a tool cabinet - so I’m opting for some sort of bumpers to be fitted to protect indoor environment.

Yes these slides work very well, and very cheap - so I can opt for adding slides to quickly adapt for other Systainer heights (you can lift the whole shelf out and replace it on another level if need be). The bottom one I knew I would use for fasteners, and I can leave the T-Lock latch open and shut the drawer.. quick for grabbing screws [wink].

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Back is space for some clamps or whatever I need to hang there - I also planned for an extension cord reel at the back.

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[Lincoln]

As the hole for the cup is placed *between* two "regular" holes, I don't see the relevance of that to the need to have at least 16 mm spacing between the horizontal surface and the first hole. On the other hand, drawer runners take up some space below the hole they are fixed to, so that might indeed be why they choose to define a 16 mm spacing in the system 32 "standard". (I put that between quotes as there is no formal standard describing system 32, it is more of a de facto standard grown to meet the needs of easily/quickly making furniture for low prices and minimum material use when rebuilding Europe after WWII.)

The relevance? Swapping the stop from 16mm to 32mm offset places the centre of the cup hole exactly where it needs to be.

 

[prjones]

      Interesting, nice workspace!  I can't help with the 16 / 32 but I am curious about the Systainer fronts on the top shelf?

Seth

Thanks, Seth! Took me a minute to understand what you meant - it's actually just the camera angle, lol! Those aren't sustainer fronts, just two systainers sitting side by side on the shelf.

 

[semenza]

      Interesting, nice workspace!  I can't help with the 16 / 32 but I am curious about the Systainer fronts on the top shelf?

Seth

Thanks, Seth! Took me a minute to understand what you meant - it's actually just the camera angle, lol! Those aren't Systainer fronts, just two systainers sitting side by side on the shelf.

Oh, yup, now I see it. Weird angle.  [smile]

Seth