Differences in specs between good brands shop vacs?

[Bob Gerritsen]

Hi all,

So I've never gotten a big Festool vac, I have an early mini for on site use and it serves me well. Then for the shop I have two Würth vacs that are made by Kärcher and a third Kärcher without automatic mode. One Würth is for the TS55, the other for whatever other machine I use. Both vacs were bought on sale and significantly cheaper than any of the bigger Festools. The Kärcher is a standby that doesn't get much use as it lacks the automatic switch. An old Wap is always attached to the Kapex. They all suck pretty good, (except for the Wap which is way old,) I don't use paper bags so the filters do need regular cleaning which can  be a bit of a pain but that goes with all brands I suppose.

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had actually done a proper A-B test between a Festool vacuum and some other good brand. Reason I ask is, from the dry paper specs all proper brands are sort of the same. I would like to replace the Wap but same as before, I'm still reluctant to buy a Festool because of the price. I'm looking for the vac that sucks the hardest, don't  care about storing a systainer on it as I won't use that in the shop. Automatic filter cleaning that works does mean something to me, clean air in general is the goal here.

So has anyone done some testing between brands?

Cheers! Bob.

 

[ajones]

Bob I like the trend t30 vacuum which is every bit as good as the festool vacs,and has the option to filter down to .3 of a mircron but you will need a festool hose as the trend hose has e a standard ridgid end..

there is good pricing on the festool midi,here in the UK at the moment which it a very good buy indeed..

 

[jonathan-m]

If I'm not mistaken the Trend is a rebranded Fein. Fein has since updated the model a bit, so you might want to check them out as well. I personally own the Fein Dustex 40 with a True HEPA filter I ordered from the States. I also swapped out the default hose with a festool hose. But better bang for your money might be a Bosch hose.
If I had to buy another vaccuum right now and didn't want systainer storage I'd go for the new Starmix ipulse model.

 

[neeleman]

I have no comparison of vacs.
But you might have a look at Starmix and Airbo.
Both are considered to be the best vacs available in Europe.
They both make a lot of vacs for other companies as well.
You have to consider the primairy task for the vac, like cleaning only or machine vac and consider the dust-classes.

 

[ajones]

Are starmix the people that make the mafell dust extractors?

 

[neeleman]

Yes they are.
They are probabely the same except from the brand colours.

 

[ajones]

If I'm not mistaken the Trend is a rebranded Fein. Fein has since updated the model a bit, so you might want to check them out as well. I personally own the Fein Dustex 40 with a True HEPA filter I ordered from the States. I also swapped out the default hose with a festool hose. But better bang for your money might be a Bosch hose.
If I had to buy another vaccuum right now and didn't want systainer storage I'd go for the new Starmix ipulse model.

Hi I don't think the trend is a rebranded fein I dont think fein make vacs, although they are the same, the same company makes these vacs for a large amount of retailers most have cosmetic variations

 

[neeleman]

Another large company is Numatic and Alto (Nilfisk).
The Numatics look the same as the Airbo vacs.

 

[Bob Gerritsen]

Alright! Thanks a lot for the suggestions and info, will be looking into it later.

Cheers, Bob.

 

[Bob Gerritsen]

I have no comparison of vacs.
But you might have a look at Starmix and Airbo.
Both are considered to be the best vacs available in Europe.
They both make a lot of vacs for other companies as well.
You have to consider the primairy task for the vac, like cleaning only or machine vac and consider the dust-classes.

Neeleman, do you happen to have a link to a shop selling either Airbo or Numatic? Can only find the Airbo site which doesn't have links to shops for some reason..

Thanks, Bob.

 

[neeleman]

Bob, here is the link from a Dutch (Airbo shop).
As I mentioned before, it seems that the Airbo are relabelled Numatic NDD vacs.

 

[Bob Gerritsen]

Thanks, quality doesn't come cheap I see. Looks like I'll probably end up with either a Trend or Starmix from the looks of things at this moment. Will dive into the accessories such as filters etc. later and see what those differences are.

Btw, is anyone here capable of explaining the importance of airflow vs pressure vs power? In plain English I mean. I notice slight differences in those variables but I can't put any meaning to that.

Cheers, B.

 

[jonathan-m]

As far as I understand it, and I might be wrong, so if I am, someone please correct me.

the mbar value = underpressure, which translates to suction at the nozzle. the higher the value, the higher the suction.
the liter/min = the volume of air that is sucked in (sometimes also listed as CFM)

I'm not quite there yet how it is that some vacs with lower CFM have a higher suction power at the nozzle, even though they suck in less volume. Probably hose diameter related.
In any case, most vacs are pretty close to each other, with the exception of the numatics, but I can't seem to find their mbar pressure values.

As far as accessories go, Festool has way more than any other brand out there. I've been looking for a 2nd vac myself now for quite some time and I can't decide on what to get either

 

[rdesigns]

Thanks, quality doesn't come cheap I see. Looks like I'll probably end up with either a Trend or Starmix from the looks of things at this moment. Will dive into the accessories such as filters etc. later and see what those differences are.

Btw, is anyone here capable of explaining the importance of airflow vs pressure vs power? In plain English I mean. I notice slight differences in those variables but I can't put any meaning to that.

Cheers, B.

Specifications for Festool vacs list one item (inches of static lift = 96 inches on most, if I remember) that many others here in the USA do not. I'm not familiar with the excellent European brands that others have already named, but I would guess that they also list the static lift.

Static lift means how high the suction would lift a column of water, or, more accurately, how much vacuum is created, thereby allowing atmospheric pressure to push the column of water up the hose or pipe.

Static lift, by itself, does not necessarily equate to high CFM, or volume flow, because of other factors like hose diameter and filter bag capacity, just as a small water pipe with high pressure may not deliver a large volume of water flow. But, in general, for a given category of similar-sized vacs with similar-sized hoses, static lift is a good indicator of how well the vac will perform.

 

[Bob Gerritsen]

As far as I understand it, and I might be wrong, so if I am, someone please correct me.

the mbar value = underpressure, which translates to suction at the nozzle. the higher the value, the higher the suction.
the liter/min = the volume of air that is sucked in (sometimes also listed as CFM)

I'm not quite there yet how it is that some vacs with lower CFM have a higher suction power at the nozzle, even though they suck in less volume. Probably hose diameter related.
In any case, most vacs are pretty close to each other, with the exception of the numatics, but I can't seem to find their mbar pressure values.

As far as accessories go, Festool has way more than any other brand out there. I've been looking for a 2nd vac myself now for quite some time and I can't decide on what to get either

Thanks, I could follow that. But let's see if I got it right by comparing it to current; So the under pressure is like the voltage, and the CFM is like the amps? Under pressure is the quality of the suction, CFM is the amount?

Indeed, then it would seem quite important the hose diameter is calculated within those values, that it is the seem for all brands.

Btw, with accessoiries I meant the technical stuff, filters and paper bags and such. Just to be sure everything is available at fair prices.

Are the Numatics that much better? I'm going to check.

Cheers.

 

[hrrb]

Another large company is Numatic and Alto (Nilfisk).
The Numatics look the same as the Airbo vacs.

I can indeed recommend looking at Nilfisk Alto.

A few years back I decided to buy a new shop vac and after a little research i had my mind set up on the (now) discontinued Festool SRM 45. But I found out that it was similar to a Makita Model and a Alto model...and actually manufactured by Nilfisk Alto.

The price was just approx. double up with the Festool stamp on it so I finally ended up buying an Alto Attix 50-21XC. I have not regretted it a single moment. It has specs similar to Festools vacs and a large variety of accessories. Self cleaning filters, auto start, rubber nozzle to fit perfectly on Festool machines. It can be used both with or without bags (I mainly use it with bags). Nice Vac...but it got the wrong colour in the colection and you can't clip a systainer on top of it  [wink]

Kind regards
Henrik

 

[jonathan-m]

Well the higher end numatics grabbed my attention as some list up to 70+ liter/min, but I cant find much other specifications.
They don't appear to have adjustable speed control though.

 

[greg mann]

While the Starmix looks impressive, from the video it appears that the filters are directly exposed to whatever is picked up; meaning that they NEED to be self-cleaning because they are constantly bombarded by dust and debris. After I bought my first shop-vad and needed to constantly stop and clean a filter to maintain flow I decided I would never buy a DC without a bag that would: A. collect the dust so I would not deal with a cloud when changing out. B. Act as a pre-filter to keep the Hepa's relatively clean thereby minimizing the need to manually clean them. By manually cleaning I mean to include any 'automatic' cleaning the machine would do on its own. This has to be hard on the filters and would seem to shorten their life expectancy.

Perhaps the Starmix has provisions for a bag and the video was done as shown to illustrate how well the filters can self-clean. If so, that would make it acceptable to me but it would still need the ability to adjust down for fine sanding like the Festools do.

 

[JayStPeter]

What Greg says makes sense.  I have been using a Dust Deputy on my Fein and am just amazed by how clean the filter stays.  Since this is planned to be a dedicated vac and not mobile, something like a Dust Deputy is a way to make a less expensive vac work more like an expensive one.  If I used mine other than in my shop, I'd probably pop for a Festool for the reasons stated by Greg.  But for a dedicated shop based vac, the dust deputy means no bags to mess with and all the advantage of having bags.  Suffers big in form factor.

 

[Bob Gerritsen]

Right, I haven't really thought of that but that makes perfect sense. So if the vac is variable and accepts bags, those are big pros.

Have to run but will check those two factors on the models discussed, later tonight.

Thanks!