Diving in Head First

[GoingMyWay]

We are all cheapskates here.  It's just that Festool makes a lot of nice machines, and if you are trying to get one of them to do what others do even better, you're depriving yourself of the pleasure that comes from having the best tool for the job.  At least that's how they've warped my brain into thinking.  LOL.  But in all seriousness, while the RO is a really amazing and versatile sander, it's not a great finish sander compared to other sanders in Festool's lineup (ETS, ETS-ECs, RTS/DTS...).  And in woodworking, most of what you do is finish sand.  So I don't see the RO as the only sander I'd like to own.  Just my opinion of course.  It still might be the first sander for you, but it ain't gonna be your last.  [scared]

Consistent widths is no problem in theory, but it's inherently going to be less perfect than say, a tablesaw with a good fence.  On a cutting board, even one hundredth of an inch difference strip to strip will give you something that needs to be routered or sanded out.  The approach should work fine as long as you have a way to deal with any unevenness you end up with - in your case the router sled.  Or a buddy with a drum sander.  Yes, you'd be able to slowly even out the board with the Rotex, but your result is likely to be smooth but a little wavier than the dead-nuts flat you'll get with other approaches.

I don't know if this is a one-off or few-off project for you or if you plan on making a lot of these, but usually folks that make lots of cutting boards end up with a drum sander for good reason.  Oh, did I mention we're really good at spending your money here?

Maybe ETS EC 150/5 would be a better first choice.  I do like that it's $110 cheaper than the RO150.

Let's see how well or unwell the first cutting board turns out.  LOL - this could turn into a big disaster.  I have delusions of grandeur of going into the mass production end grain cutting board business, but I know I'm completely unequipped to do that and I'd never really make money selling them.

 

[johnbro]

Congrats!  Nice set of tools...

I think attempting to make a custom MFT is a good idea for a lot of folks.  The money just seems better spent elsewhere and you can get something that is better suited to your needs for a fraction of the cost.  And thanks to Peter's awesome system, getting an accurate top is easier than ever.  Make sure to take a look at various designs that are out there for custom MFTs.  Example, if you need portability, take a look at how Dan Pattison (MPT) or Timothy Wilmots (MFTC) have tackled that in their designs. 

I like the RO150 but for end-grain cutting boards, it wouldn't be my first choice for a handheld sander.  You want to be able to level and flatten and even a handheld belt sander (non-Festool) would be better.  Ideal would of course be access to a drum sander.  You could get a good Makita or Porter-Cable belt sander and the ETS150/5 for the price of the RO150.  I just don't see the RO as the ideal hand sander for end-grain cutting boards that might need a fair bit of leveling.  Still going to suggest finding someone with a drum sander as the best option...

Have to agree on the RO150 for cutting boards--BTDT and you'll spend a lifetime flattening end-grain hardwoods even with 24grit paper. Belt sander is much better for initial flattening. I have both the RO150 and the ETS150 (makes sense TO ME to have them share paper). The Rotex is a great sander (they both are) but it's big and heavy. The ETS is a little easier on the hands, arms, and ears for doing lots of sanding.

 

[GoingMyWay]

Have to agree on the RO150 for cutting boards--BTDT and you'll spend a lifetime flattening end-grain hardwoods even with 24grit paper. Belt sander is much better for initial flattening. I have both the RO150 and the ETS150 (makes sense TO ME to have them share paper). The Rotex is a great sander (they both are) but it's big and heavy. The ETS is a little easier on the hands, arms, and ears for doing lots of sanding.

I think I'm going to need to make the router sled then.  I just watched Matt Cremona's router sled and I really like its simplicity.  It sounds like the ETS EC 150/5 will be a good sander if I'm using the router sled. 

 

[live4ever]

Good plan.  BTW, you may know this, but you're going to get track marks from the routing unless you use a dish cutter bit instead of a regular straight cutter.  You'll be able to sand those out, but it may be worth investing in a wide dish cutter bit if you plan on doing this a lot.   

Also, you can save a little more money if you go with the standard ETS 150/5 instead of the EC.  In terms of sanding capabilities and results, they will be very similar - both are plenty powerful enough and both have the same 5mm stroke.  With the EC you're paying for the different form factor, improved (?) ergonomics, and brushless motor.  Those may be worth it to many people, but in the beginning when you're trying to stretch that dollar, I'm not convinced you need to spend the extra.  The ETS is a tried and true and much loved sander.  JMHO, looking at it from the perspective of someone trying to spend as wisely as possible since there are so many toys to buy when starting out.

 

[GoingMyWay]

Good plan.  BTW, you may know this, but you're going to get track marks from the routing unless you use a dish cutter bit instead of a regular straight cutter.  You'll be able to sand those out, but it may be worth investing in a wide dish cutter bit if you plan on doing this a lot.   

Also, you can save a little more money if you go with the standard ETS 150/5 instead of the EC.  In terms of sanding capabilities and results, they will be very similar - both are plenty powerful enough and both have the same 5mm stroke.  With the EC you're paying for the different form factor, improved (?) ergonomics, and brushless motor.  Those may be worth it to many people, but in the beginning when you're trying to stretch that dollar, I'm not convinced you need to spend the extra.  The ETS is a tried and true and much loved sander.  JMHO, looking at it from the perspective of someone trying to spend as wisely as possible since there are so many toys to buy when starting out.

I did not know that about the router bit.  Honestly, router bits confuse me - upcut, downcut, spiral, all different types of router bits.  I think I was planning on getting the Freud 16-608 1 1/4" Mortising Bit (I'm trying to only buy Freud bits).  Do you know if that's the type of bit you were referring to?

LOL - talk about coming full circle.  As I mentioned I originally ordered the ETS 150, but it's backordered from the online store that I bought it from.  I selected the ETS 150 because it was cheaper than the ETS EC 150, but I didn't really fully understand the differences until after I placed my order.  I personally like the way the ETS EC 150 looks compared to the ETS 150 (I'm rather superficial when it comes to certain things).

 

[Holmz]

The ETS/EC 150/5 is the Porsche of the line up.

The RO are like a 4x4 school bus with a pickup bed on the backwith wings on it... So yeah it technically does it all...
But then they say ugly still need 5+ sanders...

If you are doing slabs then getting them at with a router sled is a decent way. An RO-# is slower than a belt sander and easier to have the surface wavy.

A hand plane is worth using too.

I am not really a sander guy but I still have 4 unique sanders. (Belt, 1/2-sheet, random orbital, corner) I use a Makita with a flap wheel for caveman things.
And I have two vacuum hand sanding blocks...
But I am more of a Porsche + Cessna + dump truck sort of guy... Rather

You will likely need hand planes and scrapers or a few unique sanders.
Your results my vary.

 

[live4ever]

I did not know that about the router bit.  Honestly, router bits confuse me - upcut, downcut, spiral, all different types of router bits.  I think I was planning on getting the Freud 16-608 1 1/4" Mortising Bit (I'm trying to only buy Freud bits).  Do you know if that's the type of bit you were referring to?

LOL - talk about coming full circle.  As I mentioned I originally ordered the ETS 150, but it's backordered from the online store that I bought it from.  I selected the ETS 150 because it was cheaper than the ETS EC 150, but I didn't really fully understand the differences until after I placed my order.  I personally like the way the ETS EC 150 looks compared to the ETS 150 (I'm rather superficial when it comes to certain things).

A mortising bit is different.  It has sharp corners at the bottom to leave sharp corners in the work (think like a mortise for a door hinge).  Since it's a wide flat bit, it also works great on a sled BUT those sharp corners leave little tracks in the work as you go back and forth.  Dish carving bits (sorry, I may have confused by calling it a dish cutter) are just like mortise bits except they are radiused and thus they don't make perfectly sharp corners but rounded ones, like you might see on the inside of a dish or tray.  You certainly wouldn't use them to make a mortise for something like a hinge, but the lack of sharp corners makes them far better for use on a router sled.https://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-026-4-Inch-Diameter-Carving/dp/B00004T7M5

Sometimes they are also called "Bowl & Tray" bits especially when they have a bearing to use with a template.

 

[GoingMyWay]

The ETS/EC 150/5 is the Porsche of the line up.

The RO are like a 4x4 school bus with a pickup bed on the backwith wings on it... So yeah it technically does it all...
But then they say ugly still need 5+ sanders...

If you are doing slabs then getting them at with a router sled is a decent way. An RO-# is slower than a belt sander and easier to have the surface wavy.

A hand plane is worth using too.

I am not really a sander guy but I still have 4 unique sanders. (Belt, 1/2-sheet, random orbital, corner) I use a Makita with a flap wheel for caveman things.
And I have two vacuum hand sanding blocks...
But I am more of a Porsche + Cessna + dump truck sort of guy... Rather

You will likely need hand planes and scrapers or a few unique sanders.
Your results my vary.

I like your analogies.

A mortising bit is different.  It has sharp corners at the bottom to leave sharp corners in the work (think like a mortise for a door hinge).  Since it's a wide flat bit, it also works great on a sled BUT those sharp corners leave little tracks in the work as you go back and forth.  Dish carving bits (sorry, I may have confused by calling it a dish cutter) are just like mortise bits except they are radiused and thus they don't make perfectly sharp corners but rounded ones, like you might see on the inside of a dish or tray.  You certainly wouldn't use them to make a mortise for something like a hinge, but the lack of sharp corners makes them far better for use on a router sled.https://www.amazon.com/Freud-99-026-4-Inch-Diameter-Carving/dp/B00004T7M5

Sometimes they are also called "Bowl & Tray" bits especially when they have a bearing to use with a template.

Thanks for clarifying that.  I didn't realize that the mortising bit would leave little tracks behind.  I guess I should get that Freud Dish Carving bit.

 

[ear3]

[member=66216]GoingMyWay[/member] Take a look at the different router sleds FOG members have made in this thread, some very complex, some very simple.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/router-planing-sled/

BTW, having used both the ETS and the ETS-EC 150, I much prefer the EC, both in terms of form and in terms of function.  The sanding pad brake may sound like a gimmick, but it's actually very useful.

 

[GoingMyWay]

[member=66216]GoingMyWay[/member] Take a look at the different router sleds FOG members have made in this thread, some very complex, some very simple.
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/router-planing-sled/

BTW, having used both the ETS and the ETS-EC 150, I much prefer the EC, both in terms of form and in terms of function.  The sanding pad brake may sound like a gimmick, but it's actually very useful.

Thanks for the link.  I like the same design that you did:http://festoolownersgroup.com/festo...nts/router-planing-sled/msg360850/#msg360850.  Only problem with that design is I'd need to buy the angle iron and the knobs.

Matt Cremona's sled is about as basic as you can get:

Now it sounds like ETS EC 150/5 is the sander for me.

 

[HowardH]

Having made several dozen end grained CB's over the last couple of years, I cannot strongly enough emphasize how tedious it's going to be to try to flatten a board with a RO 150, especially once the end grain has been turned up.  Maple, purple heart, walnut, my main choice of materials, are extremely hard and it takes a long while to flatten this way.  it's also very hard to be precise as well.  My suggestion is to get a decent planer and glue sacrificial boards to each end and then take very small bites.  The sacrificial boards will keep the end grain from splintering and I have had a lot of success doing this method.  Once they are flattened, then use the RO150 from 80 through 220.  They will come out as smooth as glass.

[attachimg=1]

 

[GoingMyWay]

Thank you for sharing your experience making end grain cutting boards.  I also plan to use the same species of wood in my cutting boards.  I'm really only familiar working with pine and plywood so I think I'm not appreciating how hard hardwoods can be.

I don't have the room for even a small surface planer, so I'll have to make do with a router sled to do the flattening.  I was also planning on getting the Festool hard pad to use with the sander I get (at this point I think ETS EC 150).

 

[HowardH]

The router sled should work fine.  All you are really doing is getting it ready for the sanding.  You just don't want to end up with a board that "rocks" on a flat surface.  I always test mine out by laying it on top of a piece of granite.  Any inconsistences will be noticeable immediately.  Making end grain boards is really fun.  You should check out Andrei's YouTube channel.  MTMwood  He is a Russian who does breathtaking work and you can download plans very inexpensively. 

 

[GoingMyWay]

We already have some cheap bamboo cutting boards that are seriously warped and rock like crazy.  I feel like I'm cutting on a seesaw.

As much as I'd like to have a reversible cutting board (one side with a juice slot would be great), but it seems like most people put rubber feet on the bottom so that's what I plan to do as well.  I figure that the rubber feet might help deal with one side that isn't perfectly flat.

I have seen many of MTMwood's videos.  Some are really amazing and look rather complicated to get those patterns.  I just want to make a simple symmetrical checkerboard pattern for my first cutting board.