DIY MFT Question

[Neal W]

For most people when they build things, the pieces need to be square and consistently sized.  This has always been one of my biggest challenges in woodworking prior to investing in the Festool System.  How do I cut a piece of 4x8 plywood into equally sized, very square pieces to make these things? 

The first thing was a track saw.  It allowed me to cut long straight lines.  Free handing a circular saw was not a good option for me.  I could practice all day long and could not stay on that line. 

The second thing was a 1281 square and then the 26" woodworkers square from woodpeckers.  This allowed me to line up the tracks for that perfectly square cut. Eventually I also purchased the 18" precision square from woodpeckers.

Then it was the need to have a perforated top for the smaller, repeatable cuts, and other functions.  So I made one.  Like you said, your holes are only square if you do the work on the front side and have square and parallel sides to work from.  And the factory edge may or may not be (and it always ugly and rough).  I made mine with the LR-32.  Bought it used. I've also used it for other things and will use it for more in the coming years. 

But I still wanted an easier way to make those long square cuts, so I bought the GRS-16 from TSO products.  You want to talk about money well spent.  Always square and makes it easier to use.  If I had to choose between my Woodpecker's squares and the GRS for rail setup, I'll take the GRS-16. 

I will pick up my MFT table next Monday.  Again, accurate repeat-ability are important for many projects, and I'm hoping the MFT with it's bells and whistles will further improve my ability to achieve those results over and above my homemade top and table. 

If I knew then what i know now, this is what I would purchase (if available). 

TS-55 with the holey rail. 
GRS-16 from TSO products.
EITHER the 26" (or metric equivalent) woodpecker's square or the 18" Woodpecker's precision triangle, both are one time tools though.  AT that point TSO's triangle starts to look appealing because you can get it more easily.  At worst the Woodpecker 1281 square.  I don't think I would buy both the Woodpecker's OTT's. 
LR-32 system, which is great for making tops, AND shelf pin holes too. 
Festool OF1400 router (to use with the LR-32 of course and other things).

This gives me a great foundation to make square, straight, and repeatable cuts, so when I put a box together it looks like a box and not a wonky parallelogram.

 

[Gregor]

What process should I have done to make the sheet square before drilling the holes?

If you don't want to buy expensive trinkets, lay out right angle using trammel and measuring tape. Trim. Compare diagonals to each other and opposite sides (in case it its an isosceles trapezoid) as a final check.

In case you have the LR-32 you would need to clean one edge and make another one 90° to it - so you'll need a square once to create that one corner, unless you want to triangulate using measurements - then you can use the system to make your pattern from there: with two lines of 5mm holes (one on each side) to index the rail in one direction using two shelf pins, referencing the other direction on the other known good edge (90° to the first).

What did you use to make the holes in your fist attempt?

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

For most people when they build things, the pieces need to be square and consistently sized.  This has always been one of my biggest challenges in woodworking prior to investing in the Festool System.  How do I cut a piece of 4x8 plywood into equally sized, very square pieces to make these things? 

The first thing was a track saw.  It allowed me to cut long straight lines.  Free handing a circular saw was not a good option for me.  I could practice all day long and could not stay on that line. 

The second thing was a 1281 square and then the 26" woodworkers square from woodpeckers.  This allowed me to line up the tracks for that perfectly square cut. Eventually I also purchased the 18" precision square from woodpeckers.

Then it was the need to have a perforated top for the smaller, repeatable cuts, and other functions.  So I made one.  Like you said, your holes are only square if you do the work on the front side and have square and parallel sides to work from.  And the factory edge may or may not be (and it always ugly and rough).  I made mine with the LR-32.  Bought it used. I've also used it for other things and will use it for more in the coming years. 

But I still wanted an easier way to make those long square cuts, so I bought the GRS-16 from TSO products.  You want to talk about money well spent.  Always square and makes it easier to use.  If I had to choose between my Woodpecker's squares and the GRS for rail setup, I'll take the GRS-16. 

I will pick up my MFT table next Monday.  Again, accurate repeat-ability are important for many projects, and I'm hoping the MFT with it's bells and whistles will further improve my ability to achieve those results over and above my homemade top and table. 

If I knew then what i know now, this is what I would purchase (if available). 

TS-55 with the holey rail. 
GRS-16 from TSO products.
EITHER the 26" (or metric equivalent) woodpecker's square or the 18" Woodpecker's precision triangle, both are one time tools though.  AT that point TSO's triangle starts to look appealing because you can get it more easily.  At worst the Woodpecker 1281 square.  I don't think I would buy both the Woodpecker's OTT's. 
LR-32 system, which is great for making tops, AND shelf pin holes too. 
Festool OF1400 router (to use with the LR-32 of course and other things).

This gives me a great foundation to make square, straight, and repeatable cuts, so when I put a box together it looks like a box and not a wonky parallelogram.

Thanks for that info.  I was looking at the LR32 earlier and found 2 different models, the 583290 and the 583291.  The 583291 comes in a systainer and cost a lot more than the 583290.  Which model would I need to make shelf pin holes and my own MFT top?

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

What process should I have done to make the sheet square before drilling the holes?

If you don't want to buy expensive trinkets, lay out right angle using trammel and measuring tape. Trim. Compare diagonals to each other and opposite sides (in case it its an isosceles trapezoid) as a final check.

In case you have the LR-32 you would need to clean one edge and make another one 90° to it - so you'll need a square once to create that one corner, unless you want to triangulate using measurements - then you can use the system to make your pattern from there: with two lines of 5mm holes (one on each side) to index the rail in one direction using two shelf pins, referencing the other direction on the other known good edge (90° to the first).

What did you use to make the holes in your fist attempt?

I do not have the LR32 system yet.  Was looking earlier and found 2 different models.  One in a systainer and one without.  The one without was a lot cheaper option.  Not sure which one I need.

For my first attempt, I purchased the Lee Valley 20mm Bushing and drill bit.

 

[Gregor]

I do not have the LR32 system yet.  Was looking earlier and found 2 different models.  One in a systainer and one without.  The one without was a lot cheaper option.  Not sure which one I need.

The LR 32 SET (compared to the SYS) misses the LA-LR 32 FS (which you'll most likely need), two FSZ 120 clamps (dito), the 35mm and the two 5mm drill bits and the systainer. The SYS is IMHO better as the systainer and the two FSZ 120 alone nearly account for the extra € (compared to the SET at the prices here in germany), giving you the LA-LR and the drills for 'free'.

 

[Atonwa]

The LR 32 SET (compared to the SYS) misses the LA-LR 32 FS (which you'll most likely need), two FSZ 120 clamps (dito), the 35mm and the two 5mm drill bits and the systainer. The SYS is IMHO better as the systainer and the two FSZ 120 alone nearly account for the extra € (compared to the SET at the prices here in germany), giving you the LA-LR and the drills for 'free'.

This is great advice here. Plus the fact if you do purchase the OF1400 it screws to the bottom of the router with some special screws. There is a lot of different parts to keep organized/not lost. The systainer keeps it perfectly organized and adds those extra pieces.

 

[Stone Message]

I'm a newbie to woodworking and took a stab at making my own Mft/3 top.  In the end all looked well and aligned but the 20mm holes were off.  If I put a drywall square to a row of holes, I can see them gradually drift from a straight line.  I took a full 4x8 sheet of MDF from Home Depot to make this top.  Is it possible the sheet wasn't squared?  Should I have trimmed the edges first?  What process should I have done to make the sheet square before drilling the holes?  What tools do more experienced guys use to square a sheet of material?  I was thinking of investing in the TSO GRS-16 square for my rail.

As Harvey says, it is worth taking a look at the Parf Guide System. I have demonstrated its amazing accuracy using the 5 cut test.


Peter

 

[joiner1970]

I'm a newbie to woodworking and took a stab at making my own Mft/3 top.  In the end all looked well and aligned but the 20mm holes were off.  If I put a drywall square to a row of holes, I can see them gradually drift from a straight line.  I took a full 4x8 sheet of MDF from Home Depot to make this top.  Is it possible the sheet wasn't squared?  Should I have trimmed the edges first?  What process should I have done to make the sheet square before drilling the holes?  What tools do more experienced guys use to square a sheet of material?  I was thinking of investing in the TSO GRS-16 square for my rail.

As Harvey says, it is worth taking a look at the Parf Guide System. I have demonstrated its amazing accuracy using the 5 cut test.


Peter

I was over at high Wycombe on Monday don't often get over that way. Suddenly though to myself great axminster is round the corner, I can take a look at the Parf dogs. Sadly they didn't have any in stock :-(

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk

 

[Stone Message]

I was over at high Wycombe on Monday don't often get over that way. Suddenly though to myself great axminster is round the corner, I can take a look at the Parf dogs. Sadly they didn't have any in stock :-(

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk

Hi Chris

The PGS keeps selling out and Axminster have had to put on extra shifts to keep production up. The shops always seem to sell out quickly.  I am sorry that you will have to wait a bit longer.

Peter

 

[joiner1970]

I was over at high Wycombe on Monday don't often get over that way. Suddenly though to myself great axminster is round the corner, I can take a look at the Parf dogs. Sadly they didn't have any in stock :-(

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk

Hi Chris

The PGS keeps selling out and Axminster have had to put on extra shifts to keep production up. The shops always seem to sell out quickly.  I am sorry that you will have to wait a bit longer.

Peter

Yeah I'm guessing they're selling well. I just dropped in on the off chance while over that way. I saw your kits in the tubes and axminsters version of an mft.

Sent from my ALE-L21 using Tapatalk

 

[Atonwa]

Went over and had my custom MFT top ran on the CNC today. We had to get a bit creative because only the smaller one was open but it came out great and I simply will trim to size when I get the Kapex MFT in on Thursday.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

That looks nice.  I'm trying to see if I can figure out a way to try again with the tools I have from Lee Valley and the woodpecker story stick. 

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

Went over and had my custom MFT top ran on the CNC today. We had to get a bit creative because only the smaller one was open but it came out great and I simply will trim to size when I get the Kapex MFT in on Thursday.

What are the dimensions of that top?

 

[Atonwa]

What are the dimensions of that top?

Thanks, the top will be 32.06" x 81.94" when cut to final length. It is a combination of the Kapex MFT longer rail and the hard to find 2 meter Festool rail that I was lucky enough to purchase from a FOG member. This will be my center worktable with an integrated table saw at the one end so it will function as an outfeed table for that also.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

For most people when they build things, the pieces need to be square and consistently sized.  This has always been one of my biggest challenges in woodworking prior to investing in the Festool System.  How do I cut a piece of 4x8 plywood into equally sized, very square pieces to make these things? 

The first thing was a track saw.  It allowed me to cut long straight lines.  Free handing a circular saw was not a good option for me.  I could practice all day long and could not stay on that line. 

The second thing was a 1281 square and then the 26" woodworkers square from woodpeckers.  This allowed me to line up the tracks for that perfectly square cut. Eventually I also purchased the 18" precision square from woodpeckers.

Then it was the need to have a perforated top for the smaller, repeatable cuts, and other functions.  So I made one.  Like you said, your holes are only square if you do the work on the front side and have square and parallel sides to work from.  And the factory edge may or may not be (and it always ugly and rough).  I made mine with the LR-32.  Bought it used. I've also used it for other things and will use it for more in the coming years. 

But I still wanted an easier way to make those long square cuts, so I bought the GRS-16 from TSO products.  You want to talk about money well spent.  Always square and makes it easier to use.  If I had to choose between my Woodpecker's squares and the GRS for rail setup, I'll take the GRS-16. 

I will pick up my MFT table next Monday.  Again, accurate repeat-ability are important for many projects, and I'm hoping the MFT with it's bells and whistles will further improve my ability to achieve those results over and above my homemade top and table. 

If I knew then what i know now, this is what I would purchase (if available). 

TS-55 with the holey rail. 
GRS-16 from TSO products.
EITHER the 26" (or metric equivalent) woodpecker's square or the 18" Woodpecker's precision triangle, both are one time tools though.  AT that point TSO's triangle starts to look appealing because you can get it more easily.  At worst the Woodpecker 1281 square.  I don't think I would buy both the Woodpecker's OTT's. 
LR-32 system, which is great for making tops, AND shelf pin holes too. 
Festool OF1400 router (to use with the LR-32 of course and other things).

This gives me a great foundation to make square, straight, and repeatable cuts, so when I put a box together it looks like a box and not a wonky parallelogram.

Thanks for that info.  I was looking at the LR32 earlier and found 2 different models, the 583290 and the 583291.  The 583291 comes in a systainer and cost a lot more than the 583290.  Which model would I need to make shelf pin holes and my own MFT top?

I wanted to get some input on more experienced woodworkers workflow as I am a newbie.  Assuming I get the TSO GRS-16 and either purchase or create a nice square MFT top.  What should be my workflow?

1- Cut all 4 of the factory edges off the 4x8 sheet or what whatever dimension sheet I bring home (sometimes I have them cut it in half at the store for transport purposes) from the big box store with the GRS-16.
2- Then once I cut all 4 sides with the GRS-16, transfer over to the MDF workbench and cut to size and do my repetitive cuts there?

 

[Atonwa]

I wanted to get some input on more experienced woodworkers workflow as I am a newbie.  Assuming I get the TSO GRS-16 and either purchase or create a nice square MFT top.  What should be my workflow?

1- Cut all 4 of the factory edges off the 4x8 sheet or what whatever dimension sheet I bring home (sometimes I have them cut it in half at the store for transport purposes) from the big box store with the GRS-16.
2- Then once I cut all 4 sides with the GRS-16, transfer over to the MDF workbench and cut to size and do my repetitive cuts there?

First off Neal's advice above is spot on, if I had to do it again that would be my choices too.

As for your workflow I can use these cabinets I'm working on today (finally getting shop cabinets done!). These are made of 3/4" Plywood primarily and also 1/2" for the top that's currently on it. It will be getting a Paulk style MFT top also.

Steps:

1. Take off factory edge of plywood on end and one side to use as reference edges.
2. Cut with track saw to cabinet depth by marking out along long edge and using the GRS-16 to ensure square. Reference your marks just to be sure.
3. Once pieces are cut to depth they will be transferred to the MFT. My pieces were 8' long and cut to cabinet, shelf, and support rail width.
4. Using an  outfeed support like this, square up your MFT and end stop rail, set your end stop to the proper length for height of cabinet, length of rail, etc and cut all pieces to ensure they are the same.
5. Using your router, create any dado or rabbits needed in all boards.
6. Using the LR32 system, set up and run all cabinet sides for holes.
7. Using the Kreg pocket screw system (if you plan to pocket screw) drill all holes needed in all parts.
8. Sand all pieces.
9. Using the MFT & the required clamps for alignment, glue and screw all cabinets together.
10. Finish sand all edges, paint or seal.

That is a quick dirty guide, lots of videos on youtube. These are based off the Benchworks System Benches and Cabinets (Bought his plans).

Hope this helps.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

I wanted to get some input on more experienced woodworkers workflow as I am a newbie.  Assuming I get the TSO GRS-16 and either purchase or create a nice square MFT top.  What should be my workflow?

1- Cut all 4 of the factory edges off the 4x8 sheet or what whatever dimension sheet I bring home (sometimes I have them cut it in half at the store for transport purposes) from the big box store with the GRS-16.
2- Then once I cut all 4 sides with the GRS-16, transfer over to the MDF workbench and cut to size and do my repetitive cuts there?

First off Neal's advice above is spot on, if I had to do it again that would be my choices too.

As for your workflow I can use these cabinets I'm working on today (finally getting shop cabinets done!). These are made of 3/4" Plywood primarily and also 1/2" for the top that's currently on it. It will be getting a Paulk style MFT top also.

Steps:

1. Take off factory edge of plywood on end and one side to use as reference edges.
2. Cut with track saw to cabinet depth by marking out along long edge and using the GRS-16 to ensure square. Reference your marks just to be sure.
3. Once pieces are cut to depth they will be transferred to the MFT. My pieces were 8' long and cut to cabinet, shelf, and support rail width.
4. Using an  outfeed support like this, square up your MFT and end stop rail, set your end stop to the proper length for height of cabinet, length of rail, etc and cut all pieces to ensure they are the same.
5. Using your router, create any dado or rabbits needed in all boards.
6. Using the LR32 system, set up and run all cabinet sides for holes.
7. Using the Kreg pocket screw system (if you plan to pocket screw) drill all holes needed in all parts.
8. Sand all pieces.
9. Using the MFT & the required clamps for alignment, glue and screw all cabinets together.
10. Finish sand all edges, paint or seal.

That is a quick dirty guide, lots of videos on youtube. These are based off the Benchworks System Benches and Cabinets (Bought his plans).

Hope this helps.

That gives me a better visual.  I was always thinking to make my MFT large to support 4x8 sheets.  I can visual now getting the Festool MFT size and the support you linked to cut the pieces down to size.  Maybe its faster for me to get the Festool MFT replacement top and make a sys cart for it and 1 of those supports you linked. 

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

How about parallel guides?  Find it a necessity?  If so, Festool, Seneca, Precision or they all the same thing?

 

[Neal W]

I've never tried to take my TS 55 to a big box score to cut a piece there.  I usually have them put it on their panel saw and come up with some ball park measurement, 48, 49 whatever it takes.  And then let the little box with the beaver in it gnaw the board in half.

I hate having the box stores cut my plywood in half, sometimes it is a necessary evil.

I also purchased the precision dogs parallel guides with the incra tracks.  They work quite well.  But I don't know if you can still get them or not.  Then I found a way to put the parallel guide on my GSR-16....Post Here.

 

[Atonwa]

How about parallel guides?  Find it a necessity?  If so, Festool, Seneca, Precision or they all the same thing?

I have a set of Seneca's that have been collecting dust since I got the GRS-16. They are pretty redundant so I would choose one or the other probably. The parallel guides seem like a great idea but they are finicky to set up and then assure they stay on edge of sheet when clamping etc.