Domino 500 or Domino 700 w/ Shims and Adapter?

[rljatl]

Thought I would start a new thread, even though I asked the same question in someone else's thread...   ;D

I hope to purchase a Domino before the end of the year for chair and standard scale furniture building. By standard scale I mean nothing massive.  Wouldn't the Domino 700 be the way to go if you add the Seneca Domi-Shims and cutter adapter?  Doesn't it allow you to use most, if not all, of the bits and dominos for the 500 with the 700?  I have heard that the ergonomics are much better on the 700.

Any other pros and cons of either machine that I should consider for my type of use?

Seneca

 

[Birdhunter]

Have you handled both machines? The 700 is big! The 500 is, in my opinion, much easier to manipulate. But, I do jewelry boxes to cabinet size projects. I find doubling up on Dominos meets any extra strength joint needs I might have.

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

I have both the 500 and 700. I end up using the 500 much more.  The answer to your question is that it just depends on what you intend to do.  If it's 8/4 or more, consistently, then go with the 700...If thinner, then the 500. Does anyone agree with this?

 

[amt]

My first project with the domino was a table , so I went for the domino XL, and then got the adapter.  Although the XL is big, I don't think I could justify buying the 500 as well just to have something lighter.  If I was a professional I would no doubt have both.  As a hobbyist I feel we sometimes have make our tools cover a wider range in order to keep it affordable

 

[mouppe]

The biggest pieces I have built have been beds, and I used my Domino 500 for those. The 10x50 dominoes are chunky and strong. Can you envisage a need for anything larger than these?

Typical uses for the Domino XL would be doors, gates, timber framing etc. It sounds like the smaller domino would be more suitable for you.

 

[rljatl]

Is there a significant ergonomic or functional advantage to the 700 over the 500?  For example, the 700 has pins while the 500 has paddles.  The 700 has an easy to grip handle while the 500 just has the barrel of the motor.  The 700 with adapters can do everything the 500 can do, but not the other way around.

Does the 700 plus Domi-Shims and cutter adapter have enough advantages and versatility over the 500 to offset the larger, heavier size and cost of the 700?  DO the Seneca adapters work well?

 

[rsh]

I struggled with this very same decision; i ended up getting 

- 700 kit
- 6mm dedicated cutter and shims for the 700 by seneca
- festool 8/10 cutter/stock assortment box

That one tool buy seems to have covered my needs: 6, 8, 10, 12 mm cutters. So the shim and 6mm cutter works with 3/4" stock, and the depth of cut is way better when using 8mm and 10mm. when i need beef city 12mm's that cutter comes with the tool, and i just make my own tenon stock to size. I didn't need the add on 12/14 kit - and i don't do much work with stock smaller than 3/4 so i don't worry about 4 and 5mm

I can't say that i really understand the size/heaviness argument - the 700 is a pig, but it is well balanced and the pin system is pretty great. I haven't had to use it in tight and/or awkward quarters, though.

 

[sancho57]

Unless your building alot of entry doors gates, larger projects etc the 500 is I need,

 

[Stone Message]

I have the DF500 but have borrowed the DF700 on several occasions from Toolfest here in the UK. I have made many videos about the DF700.

The huge advantage of the DF700 is its greater setup options:

    - Depth of mortice can be set to 1mm (rather than the large steps of the DF500)
    - The 6 pins (3 on each side of the cutter) are far superior to the paddles of the DF500
    - Depth of cut up to 70mm is fantastic
    - The DF500 accessories fit both machines
    - The handle makes it easier to operate
    - It is probably the best engineered power tool that I have ever handled (and I am no youngster ! )

It is heavier but that makes it more stable. In use, the machine's weight is borne by the work piece and so weight is only a factor when moving from one joint to another.

I have no knowledge of the adapter and extra cutters mentioned that give the full (DF500) range of mortice sizes but as long as they are safe then they will be a great advantage.

The DF700 is not too big for furniture making as its 8mm cutter (smallest offered by Festool) is suitable for anything over 24 mm in thickness - that covers most furniture framing.

Peter

 

[Steve248]

My first project with the domino was a table , so I went for the domino XL, and then got the adapter.  Although the XL is big, I don't think I could justify buying the 500 as well just to have something lighter.  If I was a professional I would no doubt have both.  As a hobbyist I feel we sometimes have make our tools cover a wider range in order to keep it affordable

I would agree with this, I am a hobbyist and have the 700 and as I can get the adapter to use smaller bits it becomes a very cost effective way to cover everything.

Fortunately I have not used the 500 so do not know what I am missing, assuming it is a lot easier to handle. The main point is that the 700 is not difficult, I find it a joy to use.

If the money is there then it is not worth debating but otherwise it is at least worth trying to make do with just the 700.

 

[rljatl]

Thanks for the info, gentlemen.  Just the kind of details and opinions I was looking for.  Please keep 'em coming...

 

[Birdhunter]

I use the 500 a lot with the Domiplate. You have to hold the Domino upside down and the barrel is perfect for this.

 

[barnowl]

I have one of the original style 500 with the pins.

I mention this because a comment was made about the 700 pins.

When I first got my Domino, I used the pins allot.

Now, not so much.

I use the cursor, and a pencil line.

I find it easier for me.

While I use (or find a way to use) my 500 on nearly every project, I can never envision buying a 700.

I just don't use stock that large.

The 500 will do any stock fron 1/2" all the way up to 1-1/2", or more, if dominoes are doubled up.

The only real advantage that I see with the 700, is the length of the dominoes, for doors and gates, etc.

The OP mentioned furniture building.

I recommend the 500.

It's size will allow it to fit in most places, even after some assembly is complete.

Case in point.... After finishing the assembly of a kitchen cart, I cut the grooves in the aprons, to use table top clips to hold the top.

 

[Richard D.]

...................... for chair and standard scale furniture building.................

The 500 based on the chairs and standard scale furniture I have built (I have posted a few examples in the Projects section).  I never wanted for a larger Domino than my 500 could handle. If I were building architectural items such as doors I would get the 700.

 

[rljatl]

Here's a great article that answers a lot of questions about the differences between these two machines, even when considering the after-market accessories available.

Domino DF-500 or Domizilla XL DF-700?

 

[fidelfs]

I am building some cabinets that I normally use my DF500, but I decided to use the XL with the seneca adapter.

It is a lot more stable than the DF500.  When you make a cut with the 500 holding the machine vertically, it shakes and you have to be careful to hold it.  The DF700 hardly moves at all.

I will keep testing and if it is working as I expect my DF500 will hit Ebay. 

What would happen if I use my domiplate with the DF700.  I will know tomorrow morning.  ;D

 

[rljatl]

I am building some cabinets that I normally use my DF500, but I decided to use the XL with the seneca adapter.

It is a lot more stable than the DF500.  When you make a cut with the 500 holding the machine vertically, it shakes and you have to be careful to hold it.  The DF700 hardly moves at all.

I will keep testing and if it is working as I expect my DF500 will hit Ebay. 

What would happen if I use my domiplate with the DF700.  I will know tomorrow morning.  ;D

Thanks for posting this.  Please do let us know how the domiplate works out on the DF700.

 

[RONWEN]

I am building some cabinets that I normally use my DF500, but I decided to use the XL with the seneca adapter.

It is a lot more stable than the DF500.  When you make a cut with the 500 holding the machine vertically, it shakes and you have to be careful to hold it.  The DF700 hardly moves at all.

I will keep testing and if it is working as I expect my DF500 will hit Ebay.  

What would happen if I use my domiplate with the DF700.  I will know tomorrow morning.  ;D

You certainly have my attention (and curiosity).  You are aware that the 500 has a 10mm offset and the 700 has a 15mm offset?

Early on we did make a couple of "700 Domiplates" but the excellent ergonomics design of the 700 make it much more convenient to use upright -- hence we offer the Domishims for 1/2" & 3/4" nominal stock.  Soon 700 Imperial slides. 

 

[fidelfs]

Ok, I finish my test.

Yes, I am aware the difference of 5mm.  The XL is more ergonomic (a lot more) than the DF500 and helps when the Domino is vertical plunging into the wood, the 500 tends to shatter or shake when you are plunging (I hated that, I always complain about it).  It is not a speed issue, I have the DF500 since it was launched in USA, so I know the speed is a factor.  The XL doesn't shake, I guess is because ergonomics and weight that prevents the movement.  

Remember I am not a pro, so I need all the help that I can get.  

I will need a shim to make it work as the DF500, but (this will cause some debate) with plywood you don't need to be on center, you need it in wood.  This is for the nature of the multiple plys so I am ok not being that accurate center on this cabinets.  It will better to be center, so I will make a shim for the domiplate.

I was never able to have a perfect flush with the DF500 ( nothing that a light sanding won't fix), but I was amazed how accurate the XL with the Domiplate is.  I will sand, but just to have a smooth area, not make it flush.  

When I pushed the XL with the domiplate, was a little awkward at  first, but later is even better than the DF500.  It is the well balanced machine that makes it easier.

What I would change:  

1. I need a shim for the Domiplate.
2. Make the domiplate a little longer to make it work better with a larger machine.
3. I will have to cut the screews to hold the domiplate into the Domino.  The domino has full clearance in one hole, but not in the other.  I used 3 Kregs washers that came with Kreg Klamp Table Stops.
4. The DF500 is heading to ebay.

Remember if I am not a pro and I got better results using the Domiplate, what a pro will expect?  Even better results.
The weight is an issue when you balance the tool. It disappears when you push using the Domiplate, The domino being upside down and the domiplate helps holding the weight for you.

I will recommend anyone to try and see for themselves.

P.S.

I forgot to add, that I had to use the other side of the Domiplate for the 3/4 plywood cabinet, because the 5mm offset difference.

 

[bkharman]

What would happen if I use my domiplate with the DF700.  I will know tomorrow morning.  ;D

Did you ever test your plate on the XL?  I just got my bit adapter and shim plates from Seneca. Big fan of the bit adapter, the plates are nice, just not so much on the attachment process.