Domino 500 vs 700

[yetihunter]

Get the 700.

 

[smorgasbord]

This is a handy chart showing which machines can cut mortises for which tenons:

[attachimg=2]

Note that it doesn't cover the newer small connectors designed for the 500. But, since they're 8mm I would think that the 700 could be used as well.

So, the 700 only doesn't do the 4mm, 5mm, and 6mm dominoes. And while the 500 does 8mm and 10mm, it only does them at the shorter 20mm/25mm depths, which is fine for alignment but maybe not strong enough as a replacement for traditional mortise and tenon joinery in frame and panel joinery or table apron to legs, etc.

On the other side, if you're doing 4mm dominos for alignment, biscuits are the same thickness and will do that job as well. And, if you're going to buy 2 tools to cover the range, I'd argue that a 700 paired with a Lamello Zeta P2 is the more versatile combination. The Lamello P10 knock-down connectors are also more stealth than the smaller Domino connectors. For the few times you really want that 5mm or 6mm joint, the Seneca adapter (with clip on depth limiter) would suffice.

This isn't to say that the 500 isn't right for some, or even most people. I have done entry doors in the past, and may again:
[attachimg=1]

 

[afish]

I own the 500 and ddf40 I use my ddf40 in lieu of the 700.  While the ddf40 only plunges to 40mm since it uses round holes its easy to make them deeper with a drill bit.  I bought the 12mm drills for the ddf40 and use it to accurately place the starter holes then just send a drill bit down to deepen if needed. Since you already have a nice deep starter hole it keeps the drill bit square. I buy dowel rod and cut to length as needed.  I dont do a lot of bigger stuff but I built a outdoor gate and used this method and it seemed to work well. Simple answer is if you are building mostly cabinets then the 500 is probably the better option.  If you build bigger items ie. doors, large slab tables etc. then the 700.  The 700 will work for cabinet work with the adaptor but its a beast and I wouldnt want it for that.     

 

[woodbutcherbower]

This is a handy chart showing which machines can cut mortises for which tenons:

[attachimg=2]

Note that it doesn't cover the newer small connectors designed for the 500. But, since they're 8mm I would think that the 700 could be used as well.

So, the 700 only doesn't do the 4mm, 5mm, and 6mm dominoes. And while the 500 does 8mm and 10mm, it only does them at the shorter 20mm/25mm depths, which is fine for alignment but maybe not strong enough as a replacement for traditional mortise and tenon joinery in frame and panel joinery or table apron to legs, etc.

On the other side, if you're doing 4mm dominos for alignment, biscuits are the same thickness and will do that job as well. And, if you're going to buy 2 tools to cover the range, I'd argue that a 700 paired with a Lamello Zeta P2 is the more versatile combination. The Lamello P10 knock-down connectors are also more stealth than the smaller Domino connectors. For the few times you really want that 5mm or 6mm joint, the Seneca adapter (with clip on depth limiter) would suffice.

This isn't to say that the 500 isn't right for some, or even most people. I have done entry doors in the past, and may again:
[attachimg=1]

That’s stellar work. I do the same maybe a dozen times a year. Proper mortise & tenons every tine for me though.

 

[smorgasbord]

That’s stellar work. I do the same maybe a dozen times a year. Proper mortise & tenons every tine for me though.

Thanks. I used proper mortise and tenons, and even coped the rails for the inside profile. But, it was scary using a handheld plunge router with a 4" long bit going almost 3" deep. I actually had to start with a shorter bit, then swap to the longer bit since the router couldn't retract the long bit all the way. I had shop-made guides, but even so it wasn't fun and the mortises I ended up with were just OK. I milled the tenons on the rails afterwards to fit. I glued the door up with epoxy for waterproofing and to fill any gaps with strength. BTW, the dual rail design for the bottom and top was done with the top mortise of the top rail and bottom mortise of the bottom rail in each pair glued and the mortises in the middle left unglued to account for wood movement. The two rails are tongue and grooved to fit into each other, creating the gap. In the 20 odd years the door's been in place I haven't noticed that gap change. I toyed with the idea of some black silicone to fill in the gap, or maybe even a piece of ebony.

Anyway, if I were building this door today, I'd use my new Domino XF without hesitation.

Since I talked about the Lamello Zeta earleri, anyone here have one and care to comment on build quality vs Festool?

As part of my recent full-on conversion to metric, I just reconfigured my tablesaw sled and mitersaw fence to use metric Inca racks, and had occasion to use both 8mm dominos and Lamello "S" biscuits. The Domino is my first Festool tool, and while it's built pretty well, the trim stop fence is all plastic, as is the stability foot. Overall I feel my Lamello Top 20 joiner, while obviously more limited in what it can do, is built better than the Festool Domino joiner, and the accessory right angle fence is all machined metal. Not that the Festool is bad by any means, but at these price levels my expectations are high. I'm not a production shop so longevity for both will be fine, but commercial shops might see a difference, particularly as tools get abused more there.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Thanks everyone for your input.  As I am a hobbyist and to answer some questions, at this point I don't have a specific need or project.  I think it is more of a want than need at this time.  Since my retirement last year, I am tooling up as I do projects around the house and get more into woodworking.

Then forget about equipment just for now, and learn how to do some simple woodworking first. Cutting straight lines, doing set-outs, measuring accurately, how to do dead-square or accurate miter angles - the Week #1 Lesson #1 basic stuff. Throwing $$$$$ at equipment will never compensate for a lack of fundamental understanding and an ability to perform the basics. There isn't a jointer in the world (Domino included) which will give a good result on an out-of-square joint. The principal downside of the FOG is that it endlessly pains me to see contributors trying to persuade you to spend s***loads of your money (which I'm sure you've worked very, very hard for) on equipment without having the faintest idea or clue regarding your individual needs or ability. Buying a megabucks baseball bat won't instantly make you Babe Ruth. You gotta at least learn how to hit the ball first …..

 

[Birdhunter]

I built nice stuff for years without a Domino. I guess the first big tool I bought was a Sears radial arm saw. It tried to kill me several times so I traded it in for a Delta table saw later replaced with a monster SawStop. Then a small jointer and a table top planer. They departed to make room for a honking big helical head jointer and a massive helical head planer. I did keep the small band saw after the enormous band saw arrived. The 2 bag type dust collectors said goodby to two Oneida cyclones. My allergies immediately disappeared. My biscuit cutter said farewell to the 500 Domino who was later joined by the 700. Numerous Home Depot tools were replaced with Festool and many of the older tools went to new woodworkers whom I was infecting with the bug.At lease I started with an end game lathe instead of going small then big. If there is a moral to this story is that i did it the most expensive way possible. I bought cheap/small, ditched, then bought an end game tool. I essentially paid  1 and 1/2 for each tool.

 

[Lincoln]

[/quote]
Since I talked about the Lamello Zeta earleri, anyone here have one and care to comment on build quality vs Festool?
[/quote]

Build quality is night and day, with the DF500 vs any Lamello machine. The 700 is closer, but still behind.

 

[Brian Livingstone]

Hi,

I have the good fortune to own a Lamello Zeta P2, a DF500 and a DF700.  I think all three tools are amazing, a joy to use and produce excellent results.  The Zeta P2 is as solid of a tool that I own.  I can’t possibly see how one could think anything less of the DF500.  If I was forced to choose one, I would probably choose the DF700.  I think with the 8 to 14 mm range, and the versatility of the DF700 connectors it would be first choice. 

 

[JimD]

I have a 700 with the Seneca adapter and bits from 14mm to 5mm.  If I ever need the 4mm I will get one (Amana or CMT, not Festool).  I have never used a 500 but I am very comfortable with just using the 700.  It isn't light but is lighter than my DeWalt track saw.  When you are using the domino your work supports the weight of the machine.  I've used my domino for casework including drawers and beds and a gate.  The biggest limitation of the 500 IMHO is the depth of the mortise it will make.  25mm or 1 inch just isn't deep enough for things like table aprons.  Even another 1/4 inch adds significant strength.  I also make my own tenons and they are often much wider than Festools pre-made ones.  Again it's a strength issue. 

I've successfully made mortises with a plunge router and a hollow chisel mortiser but my domino is much, much faster and makes mortises as nice as I got from my plunge router.  Both are smoother than a hollow chisel mortiser.  The only risk I see is in getting too tied to pre-made tenons.  When the project needs a wider one, it is better to make them than to double or tripple up the little ones.  But the pre-made ones are convenient. 

With a 700 you can do big or little projects, with a 500 you are limited to little ones.   

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.

With a 700 you can do big or little projects, with a 500 you are limited to little ones. 

By "big" I suppose you mean entrance doors, outdoor benches for a party of 10 or more, and balconies, and "little" anything else.

Yes, single tenon joinery made with the DF500 may not be strong enough for certain structural elements, but it's more than fine for typical cabinets and furniture that most woodworkers build. Let's not forget that before the DF700 came to the market, woodworkers had been and are still building tables, chairs, beds, ladders and whatnot with its smaller cousin.

Something not every DF500 owner is aware of or tries is the double, twin, and double/twin joints which are very strong. Elsewhere in this Forum, I've shared them. My dining table for 8, breakfast table, credenza (its contents are books and magazines - some 400 of them?), set of 6 dining chairs, etc. are all in good shape after 1 to 5 years of use, and they were all built with the DF500.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Yes, double-double joints are very strong. These stretched A-frame table legs were some of the first project parts I made with my DF500. They have wheels and quite heavy solid surface tops which makes the strength requirement even higher. Four 10 x 50 did the job and they have been living in a classroom for over 6 years now.

 

[gxgn]

I had this debate years ago and I ended up getting the 700 plus the Seneca adapters for 5 and 6mm. I found myself using only 5, 6 and 8mm cutters so now my 700 is for sale (or trade locally).
I think the idea that the 700 can do everything that the 500 can do and much more is true but it’s heavy and I think I would prefer the lighter 500. Time will tell, maybe after I switch to 500 I decide to go back or worse, get both of them. So it’s life in the conquest for the perfect tool lineup. Now I’m tempted to try the Lamello Zeta P2 plus the 500 if budget will allow, probably totally overkill for small house projects I do.

 

[smorgasbord]

I had this debate years ago and I ended up getting the 700 plus the Seneca adapters for 5 and 6mm. I found myself using only 5, 6 and 8mm cutters so now my 700 is for sale (or trade locally). ... Now I’m tempted to try the Lamello Zeta P2 plus the 500 if budget will allow, probably totally overkill for small house projects I do.

I would think the 700 plus the Zeta is the perfect combination.

I personally wanted the domino as a replacement for true mortise and tenon joinery. I thought about tenon length, and since I had made tenons/mortises longer/deeper than the 500's 25mm/1" length often enough, I also went for the 700.

Any biscuit joiner will do for normal biscuits, but the Zeta's ability to cut grooves inside the mortise enables knockdown connectors that are less visible than the DF500's connectors for 4/4 stock or thinner. And if you need strength, the 700's connectors can handle things like bed frames in thicker stock.

Of course, if you're primarily doing things like picture frames or face frames, I could see where the 500 makes more sense.