Domino 700 for large gate?

[Nick120180]

Hi first time user. Be gentle.
I'm very much a DIY'er so excuse some lack of knowledge.
I have a large oak gate to build for my drive and was planning on forming it from Oak with wedged mortise and tenon joints which I understand to be typical construction. I have the opportunity to purchase a used Domino 700 and wondered if the 12 or 14 mm Domino's installed as through tennons with epoxy glue would be a good alternative assuming the 1/3rd rule is followed. The top beam will be 100 x 75mm the rest of the frame 75x75mm with oak cladding infill and the weight is likely to be in the 100kg region supported by a sprung jockey wheel.
Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[Holmz]

Yes.

However the traditional method may be more satisfying for a single gate.

 

[Nick120180]

The traditional method would be satisfying assuming an abundance of time, but I am afraid i do not have that. Also if I mess it all up trying to do it traditionally (which seems quite possible) the cost in time and money will be bad.
Unless I'm missing something the Domino with large Sipo's should allow me to joint accurately and quickly and based on Festool resale price it seems like it won't cost me much. Saying that I can think of a good few more projects for it first [big grin]

 

[AndyUK]

The traditional method would be satisfying assuming an abundance of time, but I am afraid i do not have that. Also if I mess it all up trying to do it traditionally (which seems quite possible) the cost in time and money will be bad.
Unless I'm missing something the Domino with large Sipo's should allow me to joint accurately and quickly and based on Festool resale price it seems like it won't cost me much. Saying that I can think of a good few more projects for it first [big grin]

I'm not saying the Domino wouldn't work for your task at hand.
However I've heard it said that "it's not a matter of if the glue will or won't fail it's a matter of when."
So taking that into consideration, an outside gate will be subject to seasonal temperature changes and movement, warm and dry, cold and wet etc.
I personally think it's a big ask for glue (epoxy as you mentioned) to allow the timber to cope with all that.
I don't own a Domino machine neither have I used one although it will be one of my future purchases.
But my own preference for an outside gate would be to use a tried and tested joint method which is hundreds of years old and uses no glue at all.
That is Draw Bored Mortise and Tenon:http://www.greenwoodworking.com/DrawboredArticle
Yes it will take you longer to cut the joints and make the gate but I reckon it will outlast a Domino dowel and glue.

 

[DB10]

The traditional method would be satisfying assuming an abundance of time, but I am afraid i do not have that. Also if I mess it all up trying to do it traditionally (which seems quite possible) the cost in time and money will be bad.
Unless I'm missing something the Domino with large Sipo's should allow me to joint accurately and quickly and based on Festool resale price it seems like it won't cost me much. Saying that I can think of a good few more projects for it first [big grin]

I'm not saying the Domino wouldn't work for your task at hand.
However I've heard it said that "it's not a matter of if the glue will or won't fail it's a matter of when."
So taking that into consideration, an outside gate will be subject to seasonal temperature changes and movement, warm and dry, cold and wet etc.
I personally think it's a big ask for glue (epoxy as you mentioned) to allow the timber to cope with all that.
I don't own a Domino machine neither have I used one although it will be one of my future purchases.
But my own preference for an outside gate would be to use a tried and tested joint method which is hundreds of years old and uses no glue at all.
That is Draw Bored Mortise and Tenon:http://www.greenwoodworking.com/DrawboredArticle
Yes it will take you longer to cut the joints and make the gate but I reckon it will outlast a Domino dowel and glue.

That's a good answer, In my experience gates should be able to stand up to a lot of abuse and not just from the weather, in general they will over their lifetime, get slammed have kids swinging on them and get knocked on a regular basis, all this will put a lot of strain on the joints.

 

[JSlovic]

This article may be of use in your project-
http://benchcrafted.blogspot.com/2014/09/english-field-gatesfinished.html

 

[Locks14]

I've used the Domino 700 for outside projects, gates and doors using Titebond III and West System epoxy. One thing to be aware of is that whilst traditional methods are superior, they're only superior if done perfectly. The "idiot proof" nature of the domino machines make it a better choice for many.

Other considerations include an appropriate finish such as paint or oil will protect the glue joint from the elements and also the dominos themselves are not directly exposed so an epoxy should hold strong for many years. 

 

[Birdhunter]

A possibility is to use the 14 Dominos with either Titebond III or epoxy. Then pin the Dominos with a screw or a dowel on each side of the joint. I did that with Ipe benches. The benches have been outside for several years and are still tight as the day I built them. If the glue fails, the screw or dowel will still hold the Domino in place. Frankly, I'd worry more about the oak failing than the Domino.

 

[Nigel]

About 6 or 7 years ago I made an Oak garden gate with 50 x 10 Oak homemade dominos and titebond 3 just as a test really because I thought they were far too small. Still holding up and no protection to wood at all.

 

[Holmz]

About 6 or 7 years ago I made an Oak garden gate with 50 x 10 Oak homemade dominos and titebond 3 just as a test really because I thought they were far too small. Still holding up and no protection to wood at all.

You wouldn't make a boat with dominos...

(Looking at UK weather)

 

[Birdhunter]

I guess I just don't get the connection between building a gate and building a boat.

 

[Holmz]

The UK weather.

 

[MGB]

I'd do the joinery traditional, just for the fun of it. Really wouldn't take that long to mortise/tenon. I've never seen that draw board technique, pretty slick.

I really like my domino, but doing things the hard way can be alot more rewarding.

 

[Holmz]

I'd do the joinery traditional, just for the fun of it. Really wouldn't take that long to mortise/tenon. I've never seen that draw board technique, pretty slick.

I really like my domino, but doing things the hard way can be alot more rewarding.

^ [wink] ^

If the tenons are done first and it goes pear-shaped, then they can always be loped off and one reverts to a Domino as a backup plan.

 

[AndyUK]

About 6 or 7 years ago I made an Oak garden gate with 50 x 10 Oak homemade dominos and titebond 3 just as a test really because I thought they were far too small. Still holding up and no protection to wood at all.

You wouldn't make a boat with dominos...

(Looking at UK weather)

Too right!  [sad]

 

[greg mann]

It's going to be supported by a jockey wheel. That makes a huge difference, IMO. It gives the OP a lot more latitude.

 

[Doug S]

I made a large pair of framed and boarded gates for my drive using domino XL they are only softwood though. Each gate is about 6'x6', think the top rail is 6"x3" tapering down to 4"x3", stiles 5"x3" with mid and bottom rails 6"x2.5".

I did a traditional mortice and tenon on the top rail but rest of the joints were 12mm dominos, lots of them though and titebond 3 glue.

The day after I fitted them the wife did not bolt one of them back properly and the wind caught it blowing it hard back against the brick pier, I feared the worst but the joints never moved, a year on they are still fine.

I don't think I could bring myself to use dominos on a customer's gate but because they were for me I thought it would be a good test.

Doug

 

[magellan]

This article may be of use in your project-
http://benchcrafted.blogspot.com/2014/09/english-field-gatesfinished.html

That is a great video. I just love the vices these fellows use.  Especially the one with the hand wheel.  Or the size of the top on the other.  I have to look into those vices a bit more.  Love the hand wheel.

 

[Birdhunter]

Fascinating video. Incredible precision with basic hand tools.

Not much for dust collection or safety glasses.

 

[Nigel]

Balcony job might interest the OP. All DF 700 multiple 14mm Sipo with polyurethane glue. This would traditionally be done with pegged mortice and tenon but here I am using the Domino. The frames were installed in October and the joints have not moved at all and I mean not at all even with all the rain/snow and crazy sunny days of 20 degrees so I am very pleased with it so far. Time will tell but I am confident the joints will hold for years no problem.