Domino DF 500 how much time does it save

[sofa_king_rad]

For me, I'm a hobbyist and while money isn't endless, I'm willing to spend some money if it means I can save significant time building products. My time is often very limited, so a timer saver item can mean something gets done In a weekend vs possibly a month.

Plus I'm a noob, while I will be playing wth hand tools and making old school traditional joints simply for getting a better feel for this type of work, i still have projects to build and the more and more I put plans together, a domino seems like the best way to avoid pocket screws but build in a similar amount of time.

Am I correct?

 

[robertgreen94]

Hours, days and a lot of agro.  Lets say it takes 15 mins to do one mortis and tenon.  The domino can do that in 1 min.  Its not going to replace all mortis and tenons, but it can make it a lot less frustrating.  Yes its expensive, and no you do not need it, but to me, it paid for itself on the first project I used it on.  If you don't have a problem with the price, get it.

 

[#Tee]

everything they said about the domino is true, use it with a DE so the chips dont load up on the bit. take advantage of tech, traditional mnt setting up is a hassle.

 

[kcasser]

To add to that, after purchasing it I've used it in ways I never before imagined. I now produce a product for my business that would have been unimaginable before. And I would suggest buying the "Set". The attachments sat for a long time, but after figuring out what to do with them I can't do without them. I think the Domino is one of those things that you could live without, but when you have it, you find lots of uses for it.

 

[Birdhunter]

I put off buying an expensive Domino 500 for years thinking biscuits and standard tenons were all I needed. I attended a Festool show and ended up with the Domino full kit, TS55, Festool dust extractor, and a 1400 router. I went back later and bought a Festool sander and a Festool drill and full accessory kit. Since then, lots of Festool boxes have snuck into my shop.

But, the Domino has impacted how I do woodworking and the range of what I can build far more than any other tool of process I own. It's not necessarily time that is saved although that is a factor. More, it's the ability to join wood in new and unique ways that makes the difference. The machine is a true game changer.

 

[Holmz]

For me, I'm a hobbyist and while money isn't endless, I'm willing to spend some money if it means I can save significant time building products. My time is often very limited, so a timer saver item can mean something gets done In a weekend vs possibly a month.

Plus I'm a noob, while I will be playing wth hand tools and making old school traditional joints simply for getting a better feel for this type of work, i still have projects to build and the more and more I put plans together, a domino seems like the best way to avoid pocket screws but build in a similar amount of time.

Am I correct?

You are either 100% correct, partially correct, or totally wrong.
It totally depends on what you are building.

 

[tjbnwi]

I had to fabricate 2-7' long angled face frame pieces for a corner cabinet. One side the bevel rips were 16º the other 29º. The Domino allowed me to easily align and join the piece.

Tom

 

[ear3]

You are correct sir.  I think [member=4105]tjbnwi[/member] provides a great illustration of what the Domino can do for you.  Could the biscuit joiner do the same thing?  Yes, but without the assurance that those angles will line up because of the play inherent in biscuits.  And try making a narrow frame and panel door with ff biscuits.

Factor into your costs, though, buying the Domino assortment systainer though, which gives you all the sizes as well as all the cutters.  It's worth it. 

I'm not as convinced about the value of the set, though.  I used the cross stop the first few times when I was edge joining some panels, but found pencil marks to be just as efficient, and eventually sold the cross stop.  The cross stop might be useful if you're in a production environment, but for single projects I don't think it saves time after accounting for setup and removal.  I used the trim stop a lot more when I first got the machine, but honestly, I haven't employed it in almost a year, and in that time I've mortised plenty of narrow pieces, simply using scraps next to the workpiece to balance the machine. I don't like how it's not self-centering [EDIT: Hey [member=191]Rick Christopherson[/member] how about that update to the SCG?], and so if you are doing narrow mortises, you have to spend a lot of time fiddling with the settings to get it centered on the board.  I'm not saying it's worthless, but it's a lot less useful than I thought it would be at first.

In the end, because of the cost savings, it may be worth it just to get the set for those few times when the trim stop is called for, rather than buying the trim stop separately at some later date.     

For me, I'm a hobbyist and while money isn't endless, I'm willing to spend some money if it means I can save significant time building products. My time is often very limited, so a timer saver item can mean something gets done In a weekend vs possibly a month.

Plus I'm a noob, while I will be playing wth hand tools and making old school traditional joints simply for getting a better feel for this type of work, i still have projects to build and the more and more I put plans together, a domino seems like the best way to avoid pocket screws but build in a similar amount of time.

Am I correct?

 

[HarveyWildes]

My experience is pretty much the same...

It makes cutting mortises much quicker.

It enables you to do things that you wouldn't be able to do easily any other way.

Because it's quick and easy, I find that I'm using mortises more in my work.

Get the Domino systainer with the extra cutters.  The extra cutters give you a lot of flexibility with different widths of wood and styles of mortises - e.g. doubling them up.  I would prioritize the extra cutters over getting the Domino set, if I was making the choice.  I agree with Mr. Reno that lining up mortises with pencil marks can be done very precisely, and I've had no trouble getting multiple mortises to line up.  I got the set, but I've found it to be just marginally useful.

Look at the sizes of mortise that the domino can cut and make the sizes that you can't buy - that gives you more flexibility.  I cut a bunch of dominos one day and found that it's not cost effective to duplicate the sizes that Festool already makes.  But Festool doesn't sell some of the larger sizes, so it's worthwhile to make those.

If you want exposed joinery, you can start with a Domino mortise and hand cut from there - better than starting with a drill or router because you can set it up faster - and then finish the joint off with chisels.

You'll need a dust extractor to keep the Domino from clogging.  I used my 16-year old Fein Micro until just yesterday when I got my new CT 36 (Hoorah!).  If you have to use an existing vacuum or dust extractor that isn't tool actuated (like my Fein Micro), get an after-market tool actuated switch for ~ $35-55 - it's awkward, but less awkward than turning on the vacuum manually every time you switch on the Domino.

 

[Roseland]

I'm a hobbyist too and bought a DF-500 a couple of years ago, to replace a biscuit jointer.  It can do far, far more than a biscuit jointer and provide strength rather than just location.  To answer your question of how much time it will save isn't straightforward.  It takes about the same time to Domino a joint as to biscuit joint it, but you'll use it in places you wouldn't or couldn't use a biscuit jointer.  For example, a friend of mine made a conservatory with one, frames, window sashes and all.

I bought the Set version; I not sure I would again.  But in my books a Domiplate from Seneca is essential:
http://www.senecawoodworking.com/products/domiplate-for-1-2-and-3-4-ply

A lot of projects I do involve a mix of 1/2" and 3/4" ply.  When you're swapping between the two the Domiplate ensures absolute repeatability, which you could never get by eyeballing the scale.

You won't regret the purchase.

Andrew

 

[Holmz]

I have both a Domino and a Zeta P2. IMO the lamello is better on sheets. It does not do narrow parts, but the 4 or 6-mm dominos fit those joints well.
I would also not use a Zeta on a gate.

Then there are the doweling tools.

If one is doing sheets, they could use any of the big three, domino, zeta, DD40.
It comes down to what one is doing.

For making bed frames it is hard to beat chisels, forstner bits, and euro connectors.
But if one wants a domino then there are plenty of projects to make use of one.

 

[sofa_king_rad]

Great feedback, really appreciated. This is a new hobby for me. I started off with festool just buying systainers and a ct mini for organizing my work van and all my other tools, parts and pieces.

After looking and looking for a bed we liked and would fit our space for our Daugter along with some bookshelves, I decided it was time to build my own. I've always wanted to get into but the majority of tools I have didn't apply to woodwork. Besides the drill of course and maybe a sawsall.

I started off getting the TS55, MFT3, RO 150, Kapex and OF1010 (still sorta wish I'd got the 1400).

As I work through the design and have done some testing with wood and scraps along with playing around with laminating to build larger prices and awaiting them up, I also took my shot at a hand mortise and tenon. I haven't made it to the mortise yet because still working on scurrying a square tenon, lol.

I realized quickly that with my limited time, I'm going to end up having to use pocket screws and i think that's okay, but would prefer the doubled strength of a tenon along with the nicer build overall.

The more and more I get closer to actually putting this first project together, the more it seems like a domino would really help make some things easier and faster without sacraficing quality. Probably more so because I'm a noob and learning the art,
Techniques and tricks will take some time.

 

[GhostFist]

Again this all depends on what you plan on building. I agree with holmz, for sheet goods the lamello Camry be beat, I've used it in hardwood joinery as well (edges joining planks to make wider stock) and those tool is super fast super accurate and eliminates the need for a pile of clamps. For joining stock more narrow than the lamello connectors the DF 500 finds its home ( such as some chair or small table joinery, balusters out louvers). As a begging hobbyist though, I recommend traditional joinery until you get there swing of cranking stuff out. Woodworking takes a lifetime to master, so IMO it's worth learning solid fundamentals before advancing to raped production.

 

[Birdhunter]

The combination of dominos and pocket holes is excellent. The dominos keep the wood from creeping off center when you tighten the pocket screws.

 

[RussellS]

I believe the Domino is worth it.  I do not have one unfortunately.  But I have done a bit of woodworking and do have a biscuit joiner.  I'll take a table as an example.  I built a nice small table.  Mortise and tenon for the rails and legs.  It took a little time to cut the mortises with a plunge router and bit and chisels to square up the mortise.  And cutting the tenons on the ends of the rails with the dado blade on the table saw.  I pinned the tenons with dowels too.  Tapered the legs with the table saw.  Hand planed the top with scrub, smooth, and jointer planes.  Mix of power and hand tools on this table.  Started with a salvaged table top so did not have to use the biscuit joiner to glue the top together.  The Domino would have allowed me to form the mortise and tenons for the rails and legs in minutes instead of hours.  Maybe I would not have learned as much.  But it would have been done faster and maybe better and I would have been just as happy.  Everything else would have been the same process.  The Domino would have made some of the complicated parts easier.  I don't want everything in my life to be hard and difficult.  I like easy things sometimes.  Tapering the legs and planing the top is hard enough.  I don't need extra hard joints to make me happy.  Domino saves time but also makes some things easy.  Both are good sometimes or always.  I'd recommend it.  Domino will also allow you to do things you might not have done if you did not have it.  My table.  Traditional mortise and tenon are not simple and easy.  And pocket screws are not for me.  Domino makes the mortise and tenon easy.

 

[Jesse Cloud]

If you can afford the Domino, go for it!  In the very unlikely event that it doesn't delight you, you can return it within 30 days with a full refund.  After that, you can sell it on this forum or on craigslist for most of what you paid for it.  So the risk is low.

I'm a hobbiest, too.  I can't remember the last project I did that didn't use a domino.  And with limited time, I just can't do handmade M&T and keep up with the honey do list.  Not a matter of skill - I made a few hundred mortises before the domino came out.  I have used the domino on tables, desks, chairs, cabinets, etc.

Having said all that, you still need to carefully plan your joinery and mark it precisely, so it does take some time, but must less than hand work or even router work.  There is also a little bit of a learning curve with the technique.  If you don't hold it correctly you may cut your mortise at a angle.  But you soon learn from your early mistakes.

Definitely get the tenon and cutter assortment.  The cost is barely more than the price of the cutters and its great to have a good assortment of tenons.

 

[RussellS]

I can't remember the last project I did that didn't use a domino.

I would guess this is a very accurate statement.  Other than a bowl on the lathe, what can you build that would not use a domino?  OK, a dovetail drawer box would not use a domino.

 

[sofa_king_rad]

As a begging hobbyist though, I recommend traditional joinery until you get there swing of cranking stuff out. Woodworking takes a lifetime to master, so IMO it's worth learning solid fundamentals before advancing to raped production.

Time is actually something I have very little of. I'm self employed, married with a 2 year old and 4 weeks away from our 2nd child. While I would hoe still enjoying learning and doing things by hand, there is now and will often be projects that I simply to do them as efficiently as possible as time is my most limited resource.

 

[ear3]

Exactly.  Get the Domino.

As a begging hobbyist though, I recommend traditional joinery until you get there swing of cranking stuff out. Woodworking takes a lifetime to master, so IMO it's worth learning solid fundamentals before advancing to raped production.

Time is actually something I have very little of. I'm self employed, married with a 2 year old and 4 weeks away from our 2nd child. While I would hoe still enjoying learning and doing things by hand, there is now and will often be projects that I simply to do them as efficiently as possible as time is my most limited resource.

 

[bobfog]

As a begging hobbyist though, I recommend traditional joinery until you get there swing of cranking stuff out. Woodworking takes a lifetime to master, so IMO it's worth learning solid fundamentals before advancing to raped production.

Time is actually something I have very little of. I'm self employed, married with a 2 year old and 4 weeks away from our 2nd child. While I would hoe still enjoying learning and doing things by hand, there is now and will often be projects that I simply to do them as efficiently as possible as time is my most limited resource.

There's nothing wrong with "raped production" as your first port of call. There's always a rose tinted nostalgia for the old ways. But often today's new will be tomorrow's old, that people will be gushing over. Give it 20 years and it'll be "Learn the old ways of the Domino before you progress to XYZ raped production..."