Domino Ladder

[maxpower10]

I need to make a ladder for my kids new bunk beds.  I want to the ladder using my Domino.  Strength wise what would be a good method of making this ladder?  What size Domino, how many per side per rung?  Any thoughts anyone?  Thanks!

Scott

 

[Ken Nagrod]

I need to make a ladder for my kids new bunk beds.  I want to the ladder using my Domino.  Strength wise what would be a good method of making this ladder?  What size Domino, how many per side per rung?  Any thoughts anyone?  Thanks!

Scott

Yeah! Don't! Unless you don't like your kids.

 

[spikfot]

10x50's vertically on a minimum of 25mm centers, and a good insurance policy... Personally I'd go with a tenon instead.

 

[Sparktrician]

I think that I'd also go for a full tenon or a tight cross-lap joint for strength, and possibly use contrasting sipo dominoes to through pin the joint (purely for decorative effect). 

[smile]

 

[RDMuller]

I too would shy away from using dominos for this application.  If the finished project is subject to racking without adequate bracing such as a back in a cabinet, the joints can very easily be broken. This can also happen with dados and mortise and tenons if the fit is a little loose.  Kids playing with the ladder could take it down and rack it diagonally, making the joint weak.

 

[Michael Kellough]

10x50's vertically on a minimum of 25mm centers, and a good insurance policy... Personally I'd go with a tenon instead.

I think this is plenty strong enough for kids but to be certain just add a couple of steel tie rods like they do on step ladders to eliminate the (extremely remote) possibility of racking allowing the Dominos to pull out.

 

[maxpower10]

I was thinking 6/4 steps with 3 10x50's in each side of each step.  The metal rod is a great idea as well.  After hearing the other comments maybe I shouldn't do it at all?

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Dominos are a good joinery method but are not structural.  I would very much advise against using them to construct a ladder, even if it is a small one for children's use.  Look at how ladders are constructed.  There's a good reason for how they're built.  It's not just for fear of lawsuits.  Putting faith in glue and dominos for that application is foolish in my opinion.

 

[Spike]

Remember more tenons doesn't necessarily mean a stronger joint. Remember the 1/3 rule when laying out tenons. Personally I would do a notched rung ladder.

 

[Julian Tracy]

Come on guys - how many bunkbed ladders have been built and used for years and years with only 2x4's + 10D nails or 3" drywall screws?

Surely the shear strength of (3) 10mm Dominos would exceed those methods and be plenty strong for 30-100lb children to use?

More Dominos may not make for a stronger joint, but they'll surely increase the shear load for each ladder rung.

I've climbed up lesser structures, and I'm close to 200lbs.

JT

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Drywall screws are for drywall, not ladders, not framing, not holding up cabinetry.  If you need the visual, put one in a vise, take plier and bend it.  Do the same with a framing nail, deck screw, wood screw, pocket hole screw, etc.  Know the products you're working with and their limitations.  The drywall screw is not as multi-purpose as many people make it out to be, just because it's an inexpensive, readily available fastener.

Julian, I don't know the shear strength or pull-out resistance or torsional resistance of the dominos, but I'm not willing to take that risk if I were doing or advising on using it for ladder construction.  In combination with something else like threaded rod or appropriate screws seems like it would be just fine.

 

[Ken Nagrod]

Come on guys - how many bunkbed ladders have been built and used for years and years with only 2x4's + 10D nails or 3" drywall screws?

Surely the shear strength of (3) 10mm Dominos would exceed those methods and be plenty strong for 30-100lb children to use?

More Dominos may not make for a stronger joint, but they'll surely increase the shear load for each ladder rung.

I've climbed up lesser structures, and I'm close to 200lbs.

JT

This reminds me of when I went for my OSHA 30 cert. and they show you the "scare" and stupidity videos and slides.  Yes, plenty of guys stand on stacked up drywall compound buckets, tie regular rope to their body when on a roof, shove a brick under the leg of a ladder and the best one I saw was a guy standing on the end of a 2x6 or 2x8 out a 2nd story window, doing work on the outside while his "supporting" buddy sat on the end of the board on the inside.  People get away with stuff.  That shouldn't imply it's safe or the right thing to do.

 

[Julian Tracy]

Ok, let me clarify, I'm not one of those low-rents that uses (2) 5gal buckets for a scaffold or uses broken ladders in the daily course of work... I buy only type 1 ladders, not typeII or type III.  And I'm quite familiar with what drywall screws are and what they're for, thanks.

But we're talking about a bunkbed ladder, not a header beam.

Sure, some mechanical interlock would add a racking or pullout preventive, but surely everyone here would agree that 3 10mm dominos per rung end would be sufficiently strong for the intended purpose?

He's not looking to build a 10' extension ladder.

JT

 

[Guy Ashley]

Ok, let me clarify, I'm not one of those low-rents that uses (2) 5gal buckets for a scaffold or uses broken ladders in the daily course of work... I buy only type 1 ladders, not typeII or type III.  And I'm quite familiar with what drywall screws are and what they're for, thanks.

But we're talking about a bunkbed ladder, not a header beam.

Sure, some mechanical interlock would add a racking or pullout preventive, but surely everyone here would agree that 3 10mm dominos per rung end would be sufficiently strong for the intended purpose?

He's not looking to build a 10' extension ladder.

JT

No, but he is talking about his kids bouncing up and down them, or someone else's children on a sleepover!

 

[bobbobbob]

I guess it all comes down to how safe do you want your children (or others) to be...    [thumbs up]

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Here's my two cents worth.  Use the dominoes.  Use a couple of pieces of metal rod as a backup.  Keep an eye on it and if you see any slack, fix it.

BTW, the dominoes will be much stronger if you have the grain in the steps running vertically (as well as the wide part of the domino and the legs).  Gluing a domino (or anything else) into end grain is a very weak joint.

 

[Oldwood]

I would say 2 - 10 x 50 dominos & if you are a belt & suspenders kind of guy a screw in the middle between the 2 of them with a plug to cover it. I would run the dominos clear through the sides if they are under an inch. If they are also 6/4 1" is fine. I would trust this method if properly glued with a good adhesive more than any doweled together ladder from most of the stores of which 1000s are sold every day.

FWIW
Gerry

 

[Wonderwino]

Welded steel box tubing would beat the Domino method, but then what if the ladder fell over? 

Many older wooden ladders used round dowels with steel tie bolts and angle braces at the bottom.  I think if you run threaded rod through every other rung and put some angle braces below the bottom rung, you should be fine with the Dominos, if used as suggested above. 

 

[mastercabman]

I don't think you are going to get much help.I don't beleive that anyone has build a ladder with domino and can say that it is ok to do.
What i would suggest,is to do a sample.Make a ladder with a couple steps and try it.Put it to the test and see what gives,.....or not!

 

[peter halle]

OK, I'll ask a stupid question?  How old are your kids?  How much do they weigh?  How long do you think that they will be using the top bunk?  Is your ladder going to be totally vertical or at a slight incline?  All these types of issues come into play.

Not trying to be sarcastic - I really want to know.

Peter