Domino or Powermatic 719T

[Iceclimber]

First i should start by prefacing this with my motivation for purchasing either of these machines. I am about to make seven shaker style doors out of some very very beautiful bubinga i purchased yesterday.

Original i was going to do the whole project for the most part on my CMS router table. Originally i was also going to use African or Honduran Mahogany. After finding a less than desirable pile of African Mahogany coupled with feeling morally bankrupt purchasing real mahogany i strayed and purchased the nicest boards on the shelf. Ou know those ones that you just gotta have even if they are not what you came for and cant afford them. Instead of 40BF of 4 and 5/4 African Mahogany i ended up with 40 BF of near perfect 8/4 bubinga.

So back to construction of these doors and what tool to use. Like is said at first i figured the CMS would get the job done just fine. I am now thinking this wood is both rock hard and massively heavy! The tiny little mortis and tenon joint i will get on my CMS is seeming pretty inferior all the sudden. Really quite a bummer as the money has been spent on the lumber and i really only set aside  enough extra to purchase a door cutter set for the router table.

Regardless I'm not going to start cutting up this beautiful wood knowing I'm going to build something in a half assed manner. So the question is Domino or mortising machine. The reality is sooner or later i will end up with both tools. However right now i need the tool that will see the most use. For this project i also need to edge joint 3/4 finished boards to make 3 end panels for cabinet carcasses much like you would see in a high end stain grade grade kitchen enclosing a fridge.

Beyond that i have two exterior doors to construct come spring. Both those will have have 1-3/4 styles and be made of probably solid teak.

I am inclined to just purchase the domino. On the other hand I'm a bit of a purist and it really feels like cheating to me. The flip side of that coin is i also don't have to try and cut tenons on either my job sight table saw, band saw or CMS. I also can edge join those side panels for the cabinet boxes perfectly and not have the problem of how to get them perfectly joined. Well i guess i only have a 6" jojnter so unless i want to join all 6" or less boards i will need to hand plane the finished pannnels.

Anyway the real question is can i do 2.5 x 3/4 door styles and edge joint 3/4 stock with a Domino XL if i buy all the seneca adapters. If not i am inclined to get the mortising machine as i need something that can cut large and small mortise alike for my first purchas.

 

[Iceclimber]

I also purchased a few more BF of birdseye to make the drawer fronts for this same project..

I shoulda held out on posting better pictures as these really do not do this wood any justice....

 

[nclemmons]

Can you clarify?  You said 8/4 Bubinga is what you purchased but then said you want to do 3/4 by 2.5 rails and stiles if I read this correctly.

What size are the doors?  What are you doing for the panels?  Flat shaker panels from solid wood?

I have done mortises on a router table, a Domino 500, a horizontal mortising table on my tables, and a mortising machine. 

Of those, I like the Domino the best.  Great accuracy and repeatability.  Yes, I used to be a purist, but find that the Domino is a game changer for quickly working on joinery that is strong, hidden, and repeatable.

As to the 500 vs 700 Domino with Seneca guides, back to my question on what size doors you are doing.

Look forward to learning more about an amazing project ahead with beautiful wood!

neil

 

[Iceclimber]

Yup...

I will be re sawing 8/4 to stock to make either 1" or 3/4" styles. And yes solid wood panels. 

Sure starting with 4/4 makes much kore sense but i did not find any 4/4 i liked enough to purchase. As i said originally i set out to purchase African Mahogany for this project. After picking through a twisted mess of lumber i really was not feeling i decided to break the bank and make things really easy on myself and buy the three near perfect 8/3 bubinga boards sitting two racks over....

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

I am confused, are these cabinet doors? 

You will just squeak out 3/4" after cleaning up the 8/4 and resawing it. 

1/4" m&t is ideal in that size stock, but 1/4" hcm bits are the worst.  They get hot and break way more often then larger size ones. I never go under 3/8 with my machine.  I bought a maka to do smaller work then 3/8. 

I like traditional joinery and try to only build that way. 

In this case I would just use the door cutter set and call it good.  You can always add a domino or better yet a couple dowels.

 

[semenza]

I think you're best bet is still to go with a rail & stile set for the router table.

Seth

 

[Iceclimber]

The stock i purchased is maybe the most perfect 8/4 i have ever seen.

It is dead nuts square level with zero twist the full length of all three boards the longest being 10'

I worked with some 8/4 teak over the summer and resawed and planed it to 3/4. Im gonna have to be careful but i got it.

So the vote is the router bit set really. I know that is the standard as to how cabinet shops make doors these days but these are also the same people that just edge band plywood and call it good.

The wood is heavy and dense i am concerned as these doors will get used. The cabinets are gonna hold my tools as crazy as that sounds. I plan to working in this ship when I'm a little old man. You know in like 40 years

Best laid plans i know....

I am confused, are these cabinet doors? 

You will just squeak out 3/4" after cleaning up the 8/4 and resawing it. 

1/4" m&t is ideal in that size stock, but 1/4" hcm bits are the worst.  They get hot and break way more often then larger size ones. I never go under 3/8 with my machine.  I bought a maka to do smaller work then 3/8. 

I like traditional joinery and try to only build that way. 

In this case I would just use the door cutter set and call it good.  You can always add a domino or better yet a couple dowels.

 

[semenza]

If you are talking really simple Shaker doors then it is really just a tongue and groove set. It will give the best glue surface for that joint to go with rail and stile. And you could actually add a 6mm  domino too if you want a little more.

Seth

 

[Iceclimber]

I really don't want to purchase the domino right now as i just spent $700 on all this lumber yesterday. On the other hand i can purchase the Domino if it is the only smart thing to do.

Tbh if the smart thing to do hands down either domino or M&T i and i did not have the cash to buy the Domino i would just assume wait to begin construction till i did have either the Domino or a mortis machine.

The fact i can buy the Domino or the mortise machine but it is really putting me on the edge financially. On the other hand in about a months time it really wont matter so buying or waiting a month is a mute point as i can make it all work either way.

Again though if either the Domino or M&T machine is overkill for this application i should just hold onto my cash till its easy to let go of again..

If you are talking really simple Shaker doors then it is really just a tongue and groove set. It will give the best glue surface for that joint to go with rail and stile. And you could actually add a 6mm  domino too if you want a little more.

Seth

 

[stvrowe]

If you want speed, strength, and all around versatility that goes beyond just joinery for cabinet doors, get the Domino.  I had a benchtop Delta hollow chisel mortiser that I sold years ago after purchasing a slot mortiser.  I don't miss the HCM at all.  Then the Domino 500 came out and I used the slot mortiser on occasion for large joinery needs.  About a year ago, I purchased the Domino 700 for a project that the slot mortiser would do but, multiple setups would have been very time consuming.  I haven't used the slot mortiser since, as the Domino saves a lot of setup time and is faster than any other joinery method other than perhaps the Mafell Duo-doweler. 

The Domino really is that good and IMO has made most other joinery tools obsolete.  The Domino 700 is so good the slot mortiser seems to have been relegated to the role of dust collection.  Anyone want to buy a Laguna LMB200 slot mortiser with all tooling cheap ($900)?  [eek]

 

[Iceclimber]

Hmm?

If you want speed, strength, and all around versatility that goes beyond just joinery for cabinet doors, get the Domino.  I had a benchtop Delta hollow chisel mortiser that I sold years ago after purchasing a slot mortiser.  I don't miss the HCM at all.  Then the Domino 500 came out and I used the slot mortiser on occasion for large joinery needs.  About a year ago, I purchased the Domino 700 for a project that the slot mortiser would do but, multiple setups would have been very time consuming.  I haven't used the slot mortiser since, as the Domino saves a lot of setup time and is faster than any other joinery method other than perhaps the Mafell Duo-doweler. 

The Domino really is that good and IMO has made most other joinery tools obsolete.  The Domino 700 is so good the slot mortiser seems to have been relegated to the role of dust collection.  Anyone want to buy a Laguna LMB200 slot mortiser with all tooling cheap ($900)?  [eek]

 

[Gary in Texas]

Ice, two things.....

First, either method of construction is totally acceptable, it just comes down to preference and what makes you the happiest when the project is complete. 

Second, you seem very eager to begin work with this wood, and it is some awesome wood!!!  I just want to caution you that you need to allow the wood to acclimatize to your workshop before you begin cutting the wood (same applies to after you resaw the wood)....  I would suggest you allow the wood some time to acclimatize, which will allow you some time to consider the construction method you want, and which tool(s) you need, and then make your purchases in a non rushed manner....  Just my [2cents]

Goes without saying, looking forward to some construction and end product photos!!

Gary

 

[Iceclimber]

Yes i am eager. Its in my nature im very type A.

The wood will get 3 weeks minimum to acclimate before i cut into it. I will then resaw it and let it sit another week. I will then plane it down a little at a time ver the course of another week or the better part of one.

It will take time to get everything in order tool wise for this next phase of the project. I still have to tie up various other loose ends before moving on. For instance i still have to mount that birdseye i have been finishing with Waterlox. That birdseye still needs three coats actually before i can mount it. Three coats takes six days as i have found it best to give it 48hrs between coats. Doing the finishing in my workshop means not much other building as i have to go nuts cleaning being i expect perfect results from my finish.

Before the birdseye can be mounted i need to shoot the bench top with a couple coats of conversion varnish. So as you can see i have plenty to do before i get to working with this new wood.  I just like having all my ducks in order so when i do have the time to get to this it wont be some kinda panic. This i do just for fun so i like to maintain a strict no rush no shortcuts no making due even though i dont have the right tools. 

That kinda behavior i leave to paying work lol

 

[Grasshopper]

I'd say the domino is the way to go. It is amazing to use. I don't think I'd like the Seneca adapter for smaller mortises though. The 500 just feels right for smaller projects. My two cents.

Either way, I'd love to see a video of you cranking these out on the CMS router table!

 

[Iceclimber]

Thanks for the help.

Not a chance you will get a video out of me. I barely have the time to do these projects. Clearly i have some time if i can do these projects but i sure as hell don't have video it time. The you need editing time. Other than the retired i really don't know who had all that time.

Glad someone does as i have learnt quite a bit watching YouTube videos. So dont get me wrong I'm mot knocking it.

I really don't want to purchase the 500 when my next project only a couple months down the road will require the 700. If the answer was i could use the 700 for this project i would just stop obsessing over how to build these things and purchase it.

The mortis machine would be nice to have also and i will sooner or later. The domino can do the same thing for me and other things a mortise machine cant for the the time being.

.

I'd say the domino is the way to go. It is amazing to use. I don't think I'd like the Seneca adapter for smaller mortises though. The 500 just feels right for smaller projects. My two cents.

Either way, I'd love to see a video of you cranking these out on the CMS router table!

 

[tdragomir]

I've made many a shaker door over the years. Previous go to setup was a hollow chisel mortiser, table saw tenons and panel grooves. Now since the domino 700 with a 8mm cutter its domino then table saw for grooves and join panels. Fast accurate strong its a good way to go. Personally I never liked routers for this.
Also have an antique (1940's) HCM I'd part with if anyone needs an anchor.

Also you get super dust extraction and no adapters required.

 

[Iceclimber]

I have given some thought to the dust collection of the Domino vrs a dedicated mortiser.

Taking into consideration how much i loath dust and love organization and a tidy shop the domino looks better and better..

Anyone else that can chime in on using the XL on 3/4 stock. I feel like it can be done and many do it. I also feel like there are those that just feel like tow machines for two jobs.

 

I've made many a shaker door over the years. Previous go to setup was a hollow chisel mortiser, table saw tenons and panel grooves. Now since the domino 700 with a 8mm cutter its domino then table saw for grooves and join panels. Fast accurate strong its a good way to go. Personally I never liked routers for this.
Also have an antique (1940's) HCM I'd part with if anyone needs an anchor.

Also you get super dust extraction and no adapters required.

 

[jacko9]

I would recommend going with the DF700 domino joiner.  I have both and sold my slot mortiser since the dominos are so easy to use.  I also have a shaper with the door set but, I use the domino most of the time.  While the YouTube videos make using the Powermatic 719T look easy, a fair amount of time has to be spent sharpening and maintaining the chisels and drill bits to get a clean cut in hardwood.

Getting straight 3/4" stock out of 1 3/4" 8/4 finished stock is going to be a challenge because of internal stresses even if the wood is dead straight now (nice looking timbers).

Buy the domino and don't look back,

Jack

 

[Iceclimber]

This is great info on the powermatic and more to sway me the direction of the domino at least for now. I know ill never want to use anything else once i use the Domino. On the other hand i am about to enroll in 40 hour a week two year furniture making program thats focus is traditional construction and joinery techniques heavily relying on hand tools.

I could end up transitioning to all hand tools sooner or later. Regardless even if this ends up bing the case i am sure i will still use the Domino at times to make $$$$$.

As for the bubinga stock i do have enough for this project i think i could cut it up different than originally planned and get my 3/4 styles and rails regardless. Actually i am considering resawing and then laminating together thinner stock to make my styles as to avoid movement later. This may be overkill idk?

So just to make clear before i hot the purchase button. I see the XL can make 8mm mortises. And i have seen many a video online of people using it to cut mortise in what look like cabinet door styles and rails. Again my styles will be roughly 2.5 x 3/4 maybe 2.5 x 1" if i must.

I also forgot beyond this project and the couple exterior doors i will be making i also plan to make a bench top out of hardwood. Just glue and clams is plenty for the project as thats how its been done for well ever. I figure if i have the XL it will add some strength and make getting that perfectly flat hand planed surface much more easy as the dominos will do much of the work for me.

More thoughts its a big purchase... 

I would recommend going with the DF700 domino joiner.  I have both and sold my slot mortiser since the dominos are so easy to use.  I also have a shaper with the door set but, I use the domino most of the time.  While the YouTube videos make using the Powermatic 719T look easy, a fair amount of time has to be spent sharpening and maintaining the chisels and drill bits to get a clean cut in hardwood.

Getting straight 3/4" stock out of 1 3/4" 8/4 finished stock is going to be a challenge because of internal stresses even if the wood is dead straight now (nice looking timbers).

Buy the domino and don't look back,

Jack

 

[VW mick]

Just get the donino you've been trying to convince yourself for a while

Just a thought if you you'd made your bench/kapex station out of ply or MDF like everyone else you would have plenty of spare cash for festool lol