Domino XL accuracy problem, min height almost 11mm instead of 10mm

[Arauator]

Hi guys,

I got a Domino 700 and it seems to me the height setting is not working well.  Not using the height presets at all, with the machine set at the minimum height, the minimum height I get is above 10mm, almost 1mm off, the center of the hole is at almost 11mm the top of the workpiece.  I made sure there's no dust trapped preventing the machine to go as low as possible and as hopefully you can see in the picture there's no gap at all.  Does anybody have a clue what's going on or if I am doing something wrong?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Birdhunter]

Try flipping the fence all the way up and then set the depth. Then drop the fence to horizontal. I’m not sure why this works, but it does for my 700.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

I wasn't aware that this was supposed to be a 10mm dimension? or actually any specific dimension at all? That minimum height is not "calibrated" in any real way is it? It's just where two castings meet.
Same with the DF500.
There is a specific dimension from the bottom of the base to the centerline of the bit though. 10mm on the DF500 and 15mm on the DF700 (IIRC)?

 

[dalep]

Hello

It doesn't really matter, as long as you reference both sides of the joint from the same face, all will be ok.

I have never ever bothered to actually check what the measurement is

Regards

Dale

 

[krudawg]

Hi guys,

I got a Domino 700 and it seems to me the height setting is not working well.  Not using the height presets at all, with the machine set at the minimum height, the minimum height I get is above 10mm, almost 1mm off, the center of the hole is at almost 11mm the top of the workpiece.  I made sure there's no dust trapped preventing the machine to go as low as possible and as hopefully you can see in the picture there's no gap at all.  Does anybody have a clue what's going on or if I am doing something wrong?

Thanks in advance.

You might consider picking up the Seneca Woodworking "Domiplate"  - comes in different thickness in mm or inches.  The 18mm Domiplate will hit almost dead center of 18mm Ply.  If you have 3/4" Ply then get the 3/4" Domiplate.

 

[Arauator]

Try flipping the fence all the way up and then set the depth. Then drop the fence to horizontal. I’m not sure why this works, but it does for my 700.

Unfortunately that didn't work but thanks.

I wasn't aware that this was supposed to be a 10mm dimension? or actually any specific dimension at all? That minimum height is not "calibrated" in any real way is it? It's just where two castings meet.
Same with the DF500.
There is a specific dimension from the bottom of the base to the centerline of the bit though. 10mm on the DF500 and 15mm on the DF700 (IIRC)?

It definitely is supposed to be a 10mm dimension (or at the very least 

 

[squall_line]

Hello

It doesn't really matter, as long as you reference both sides of the joint from the same face, all will be ok.

I have never ever bothered to actually check what the measurement is

Regards

Dale

I see what you mean but it does matter because you always have to keep track which sides you referenced instead of being able flip them.  Say you have a 30mm workpiece, you set the machine height to 15mm, if it would nail it you could reverse that piece and be flush on either side, if it instead drills at 16mm... yeah you get the point.  Yes you can always drill keeping in mind the face you referenced and even carefully account for the known error without using the presets, it's how I've been using the machine but that's not what you'd expect from this tool.

Quite honestly, from a workflow and sanity perspective, it's still better to mark your reference faces and stick to them.  There's very little to be gained in my mind from ensuring that all of the mortises are centered on the thickness of the panel down to the .05mm.  Even if you're doing exposed through-mortises, nobody is going to be able to tell that the tenon is 1mm off in one direction or the other within the stock.

In any case, if all of the settings are off by 1mm, there's something else going on with the fence.  If we had known that to begin with, I doubt people would have suggested the "flip fence up, adjust, then flip fence down" technique, because that usually only affects the minimum height setting.

 

[ChuckM]

I don't have any access to a DF700 right now, so I can't help with the 10mm problem. I agree with squall_line on the marking of the reference faces/sides regardless of the tools used -- domino machine, dowel jig, etc.. In more complicated projects, we rely on the reference and orientation marks to keep milling and assembly errors to a minimum.

About this: " Say you have a 30mm workpiece, you set the machine height to 15mm, if it would nail it you could reverse that piece and be flush on either side, if it instead drills at 16mm... yeah you get the point."

The 15mm setting on the machine doesn't necessarily cut a mortise half way on the edge of a 30mm board, because the two scales (one on the machine, and one used by manufacturers of the boards) may not be calibrated to the same measurement. The 15mm on the machine could actually be 15.125m on the board, or vice versa. If two boards are put together based on their reference sides, they will be flush regardless how off-center the mortises on each board are.

The above observation is also true with the domioplate products as different batches of plywood used in the same project may have slight thickness variances among the boards.

 

[rmhinden]

I pulled out my Domino XL and measured it.  It is 10mm.  See photo.

Bob

[attachimg=1]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

As Chuck said, there are always variations, you really should stick with marked reference surfaces.
This thing about trying to get exactly to the center is overthinking/overdoing.

If those steps on the depth gauge were intended to be exact, they would be adjustable, like the turret stops on you router.

 

[Arauator]

I pulled out my Domino XL and measured it.  It is 10mm.  See photo.

Bob

[attachimg=1]

Thanks Bob, checked it and mine is 10mm too, so the problem must come from the motor half of the machine.  Anyway I thought the easiest thing would be to adjust the height scale to reality and for the moment forget about the presets.

 

[elfick]

Thanks Bob, checked it and mine is 10mm too, so the problem must come from the motor half of the machine.  Anyway I thought the easiest thing would be to adjust the height scale to reality and for the moment forget about the presets.

If the mark measures to 10mm then this may just be a minor technique issue. It looks like you are using the 8mm cutter. I'm guessing it has enough lead before hitting the material to account for 1/2 mm drift if you were even slightly lifting up on the handle.

Maybe try clamping the plate to the material and hold the handle very lightly to eliminate possible interference? Basically find some way to eliminate the machine motion from the equation as much as possible. I wouldn't say to do this in regular use but just while evaluating this concern. 

 

[ChuckM]

Maybe try clamping the plate to the material and hold the handle very lightly to eliminate possible interference? Basically find some way to eliminate the machine motion from the equation as much as possible. I wouldn't say to do this in regular use but just while evaluating this concern.

Good suggestion on checking if the discrepancy was due to some kind of user error or machine problem.

Get a flat scrap plywood, mark the reference side, make a couple mortises under the optimal conditions (including the cutter is damage free, fence is secured, etc.), then measure the distances. The DF500 is known to have various kinds of "problems" caused by user errors.

 

[dalep]

I will agree to disagree, it makes no difference. I have been using both my DF700's and DF500's since 2016 and have , until today, never ever checked the cutter height. I  checked both of my 700's today and they are not the same, there is a .3mm difference between the 2 (they are 2 years apart if that has any influence)

I use both at the same time as for speed I have them both set to different plunge depths (corners). Joints are always aligned, there is no .3mm difference as I always use the reference face.

Use a pencil, mark the reference faces and use those marks to make the plunge on the correct faces.

Even a sheet of material can and does vary in thickness

Simple, you don't flip the workpiece.

It doesn't matter if the domino if off centre, as long as its off centre in the same direction on both pieces.

That said, if you find its is an issue, return it, it has a 14 / 30 day return window depending location

HTH

Dale

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
It doesn't matter if the domino if off centre, as long as its off centre in the same direction on both pieces.

That said, if you find its is an issue, return it, it has a 14 / 30 day return window depending location

HTH

Dale

An inaccurate scale (say off by 1mm) doesn't matter in edge to edge joinery such as joining boards together. However it may matter in other situations such as when the selection slide for height adjustment is used for offset mortising. The may still be an offset, but the offset may not be the amount of offset desired.

 

[squall_line]

Snip.
It doesn't matter if the domino if off centre, as long as its off centre in the same direction on both pieces.

That said, if you find its is an issue, return it, it has a 14 / 30 day return window depending location

HTH

Dale

An inaccurate scale (say off by 1mm) doesn't matter in edge to edge joinery such as joining boards together. However it may matter in other situations such as when the selection slide for height adjustment is used for offset mortising. The may still be an offset, but the offset may not be the amount of offset desired.

Yes and no?

The offset from one height adjustment setting to the next should be whatever the height adjustment says the difference is between the two settings.  So if you set it to 10 and then to 18, you should still have an 8mm offset between the mortises, even if the actual distances to the face are 11 and 19 or 10.3 and 18.3.

If you're using the scale to sneak up on the edge of a piece of material, all bets are off as to whether or not you'll blow out the edge, since you're not really using the 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 rule in that case (or the 1/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5, 1/5 for double tenons).  But using the 3rds or 5ths there should still be plenty of meat left in the wood to accommodate for just about any incorrect base fence under 1mm off of spec.

 

[ChuckM]

Snip.
The offset from one height adjustment setting to the next should be whatever the height adjustment says the difference is between the two settings.  So if you set it to 10 and then to 18, you should still have an 8mm offset between the mortises, even if the actual distances to the face are 11 and 19 or 10.3 and 18.3.

Snip.

You're assuming here that the slide is working properly as designed, and hence the, say, 1mm difference applies to all settings. It may be the case, but since we don't know what causes the 1mm difference as observed by the OP, I am not making that assumption. Hence, the simple test suggested by elfick is supported by me. It isn't a lot of work to do the diagnostic cuts hopefully to find out more.