Dominoes not lining up when joining panels

[drmaz72]

Hello all.  First like to say that I am new to the forum and i am a recreational woodworker and claim in to way to be an expert.  An issue I have had with my Domino df 500 is when joining panels, my lines do not line up exactly.  In other words if I lye the boards side by side, scribe a line between them in multiple areas along the two boards, us the domino 500 on those lines, and then place dominoes, my lines in the panel are shifted slightly along the board.  My thought is that the bit is not exactly centered with reference to the fence of the domino 500.  I am mortising on the narrowest setting at each site and all of the dominoes do line up, it is just that they are off a few mm.
I hope I have written that in a manner easily understood.  I am wondering if there is an adjustment somewhere on the fence or bit that I am unaware of.
Thanks for any and all help in advance.
Chris

 

[TOOLTOWN]

You can adjust the clear plastic viewing window.  There are two screws you loosen, slide the window half the distance in the direction that the boards are misaligned.  This will create perfectly aligned joints.

Ken

 

[drmaz72]

Thanks Ken I will give it a try.

 

[TOOLTOWN]

You got it!!  And  [welcome] to the FOG

Ken

 

[ear3]

Here's a half inch shy video on how to do the calibration:
http://www.halfinchshy.com/2011/10/calibrating-festool-domino-cursor.html

There are other good videos about the Domino on his blog, which you can find just by clicking on the domino tag.

It's also possible that the edge dogs are slightly off, which is why Festool includes a replacement pair that have slightly different thicknesses than the stock ones to adjust for them being off-center.

After going through one or both of these calibration procedures, it is possible to get your alignment dead on. 

 

[Wooden Skye]

You could also do 1 board with the tight setting and the other with the middle setting.

 

[drmaz72]

Ok gang.  I watched the video suggested by Ed from Half Inch Shy.  Great video by the way.  So I went home and did the calibration.  After having done the calibration 6 times I am still getting an offset.  I have adjusted the plastic window as far left as it will go and as you can see there is still an offset of a full mm.  So it did improve from the 3mm it was originally off but I would just like to see a more accurate result.  Am I crazy to think this should be better?

 

[drmaz72]

Just to be clear, my photos posted upside down so when I say I adjusted the plastic window to the left I was going in the correct direction.

 

[Brice Burrell]

...It's also possible that the edge dogs are slightly off, which is why Festool includes a replacement pair that have slightly different thicknesses than the stock ones to adjust for them being off-center....

Did you try the replacing the "edge dogs" as Edward mentioned?

 

[drmaz72]

Thank you for the suggestion Brice.  I did not adjust the edge dogs but I did not use them in lining up my mortises so they were not involved in the process.  If I were using them or doing repetitive mortises along the board I would consider their involvement.  I have considered taking the plastic window out and grinding one side enough that I can adjust it another 0.5 mm which should have me lined up.  But should that be necessary on such a high end piece of machinery?

 

[dltflt]

Have you talked to Festool service?

 

[ear3]

Anything's possible, but my assumption would be there should not be a need to grind down the window.  In my experience the amount of adjustment that was needed on the window was tiny -- less than .5mm.  So tiny, in fact, that it's very easy to overcompensate, which is why I would want to make certain that I was doing it correctly. 

Thank you for the suggestion Brice.  I did not adjust the edge dogs but I did not use them in lining up my mortises so they were not involved in the process.  If I were using them or doing repetitive mortises along the board I would consider their involvement.  I have considered taking the plastic window out and grinding one side enough that I can adjust it another 0.5 mm which should have me lined up.  But should that be necessary on such a high end piece of machinery?

 

[grbmds]

Ok gang.  I watched the video suggested by Ed from Half Inch Shy.  Great video by the way.  So I went home and did the calibration.  After having done the calibration 6 times I am still getting an offset.  I have adjusted the plastic window as far left as it will go and as you can see there is still an offset of a full mm.  So it did improve from the 3mm it was originally off but I would just like to see a more accurate result.  Am I crazy to think this should be better?

I have never adjusted anything on my DF500 and never have had any problems lining up joints. In fact, earlier this year, I made a piece of furniture using only Domino loose tenon joints and the piece turned out perfectly. I lined up all the cuts with only matching marks on both pieces. The only times I've had problems are when I've misaligned the tool or didn't reference the same face or edge (not saying you did these; just saying that is the only time I've had a problem).

I would contact Festool Service. If you have followed the video steps and did the checks in the Manual I don't believe you should have this problem unless there is some defect in the tool.

Have you read through the DF500 Supplemental Manual by Rick Christopherson which is also on the Festool website under Service>Download Manuals>Joiners. Rick's Supplemental Manual is amazing and gives technique tips as well as more complete instructions.

Really . . . Call Service though and work with them. Take advantage of the great warranty and their expertise. They really are excellent.

 

[drmaz72]

Wanted to give you all an update.  It turns out that I only live 30 miles from the Festool Headquarters in Lebanon Indiana, so I took a quick drive down there on Friday.  I met with Eric from service and he examined my Domino 500.  He agreed that the domino needed calibration using a machine they have in the shop.  He explained that there were two set screws and on the calibration machine they could tighten/loosen one side or the other to slide the entire fence unit one direction or the other.  So I left it with them and I will let you know in a week or so how things line up when I get it back.

 

[Tinker]

The first time I used my Domino (df 500) I had watched several demos while I was with a group of fellow Festnuts (at the ToolNut) Altho i had watched and listened to all explanations, I still went to Rick's manual for further study.  I was building a table about 6'4" long.  I put five or six dominos along the length between each joint.  I even practiced a little before hand. Lucky that i did practice.  I was running into the same problem you were having.  Over the length of the joint, i was a little off.

I checked the guide lines with the lines on the wood and they were dead on the money.  what was i doing?  I sort of annalized my proceedure.  I was not holding the front handle with enough pressure to keep the bit (the entire machine)from moving to one side.  I was putting most of the effort into the hand that was holding the "tail" of the domino.  Once I figured that out, all my mortices came out perfect. 

My problem was that with all the demos I had watched, each demonstratr told me just how to control for perfection.  I must have been thinking about the crickets I hear all of the time.  :.  I have not used the toy as often as I would like, but I have not made that mistook again.  I'm sure that since you took the tool into the Festoy shop, they straightened you out on that score. I am going down to my shop and look at the screws you (and others) have mentioned just in case i start having problems down the line.
Tinker

 

[Jeff Zanin]

Good to know Festool is calibrating your machine, hopefully that will be it and please let us know either way.

In my experience using the Domino it is best to use one hand to hold the front (fence, Domi-Plate or whatever you are using to position the mortise) very firmly against stock that is clamped securely, and to use the other hand at the very back of the tool housing (just before the power cord) to gently move the housing straight towards the head as the cutter makes the mortise. 

 

[drmaz72]

I do agree Tinker and Jeff that there is an absolute learning curve with this tool as with any.  Some of the very things you discuss I too experienced the first few times using the domino.  Clamping of the work piece, adequate pressure on the front handle, and even then comes the touch of advancing the handle forward without shifting the machine.  I like to hold the handle where the cord meets and advance it along a straight access rather than wrapping my hand around the handle.  I can assure you I have practiced these skills and don't claim to be an expert but have a pretty good handle on it.  The reason I believe it to be the machine is the fact that with the mortise set at the narrowest wobble, all of the dominoes line up, they are just shifted a few mm.  Then after performing the calibration from half inch shy, the results were visible and repeated all 5 times.  Hopefully it is just a matter of festool getting it lined up.

 

[drmaz72]

Well my domino came back today and I have to say I am more than just a little disappointed. I have run 2 tests and each have yielded the same results; the machine is still not right. I have recorded video of the second test.
Then upon closer examination I noticed that the domino Fence no longer sits completely flush with the workpiece. Ithe seems that in their attempt to reset the fence, it is now out of alignment. I am not sure that this is an adjustment that can be made other than by festool.

 

[grbmds]

Then upon closer examination I noticed that the domino Fence no longer sits completely flush with the workpiece.

I am not completely sure how you determined this. However, based on my understanding of this comment, it means that, when you cut a Domino slot, the fence doesn't sit tight down to the work piece. Are you sure that, the work piece is hanging over the edge of whatever surface you are resting the workplace on. If not, it could mean that the Domino is resting on the surface and not the work piece. Don't know if that's clear, but I wasn't clear on this last problem. As for the other alignment problem, it looks suspiciously like the Domino has moved slightly during the cutting process, which is easy to have happen. It is very easy to have the tool move both side to side and up and down during cutting without thinking that this is actually happening.

 

[Tinker]

Try practicing the motions of cutting without actually starting the machine.  Get used to holding the front handle tight to the work and jsy easing the body of the domino forward smoothly.  In the army, we had to practice shooting the M-1 without ammo so we could get used to squeezing the trigger, but not pulling the trigger which makes one pull the riffle off target.  In holding the front of the domino and gently pushing the body of the tool forward without cutting you get the feel without twisting the tool. Remove the bit while you do this so you can get used to the full forward motion. 

Are you looking staight down to your marks.  If you keep your eye off to the side as you look down to the marks, you cannot line up "the sights" properly. The paralax will have you lining the tool off by about what I am seeing in your picture.  I have one eye that is better, my right.  I am left handed.  If I use almost any sawing tool left handed and sight with my right eye, I will be off.  I have not tried using the domino left handed.  I don't know off hand if it can be used left handed.  I think it can.  I know it would be very difficult if I were using it left handed and sighting with my right eye. I run into that sort of problem when using a hand saw.  I want to use it left handed but cannot follow a line with fine accuracy unless I cut right handed.  The geometry gets all screwed up when cutting left handed and sighting with right eye.

Tinker